Alternatives for the Dzogchenpa

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Alternatives for the Dzogchenpa

Postby kalden yungdrung » Fri May 18, 2012 1:58 pm

Tashi delek,

What is the best alternative for a Dzogchenpa who is not realised about his/her pratice, when he/she is dying ?

The question is also how can this Dzogchenpa know this at the time of death?
Further question would be are there ways to predict the time of death?

If the Dzogchenpa would have practiced Tantra then the Bardo and Phowa are an excellent way for relevant solutions. Or is it better to assume that the Dzogchenpa would anyway in his next "human" form attain the Rainbow Body?
Are there examples of the last mentioned Dzogchenpas maybe?


So crucial here is the importance of Tantra as practice for a Dzogchenpa, seen as an "insurance" in case of Bardo or not Bardo........

Maybe you have another point of view, maybe a good suggestion?


Mutsog Marro
KY
THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD
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Re: Alternatives for the Dzogchenpa

Postby Andrew108 » Fri May 18, 2012 2:37 pm

Madhyamaka is the answer. Internalizing it. Not just leaving it as heady philosophy.
For example:
''When it's time to leave this body, this illusionary tangle,
Don't cause yourself anxiety and grief;
The thing that you should train in and clear up for yourself -
There's no such thing as dying to be done.
It's just clear light, the mother, and child clear light uniting;
When mind forsakes the body, sheer delight!''
Götsangpa
The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.
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Re: Alternatives for the Dzogchenpa

Postby Sherlock » Sat May 19, 2012 5:12 am

Malcolm once said that if you received the teachings from ChNN and did the practice daily (I assume guru yoga?) he guarantees that you will face no difficulties upon death. I'd also be curious to know his answer.
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Re: Alternatives for the Dzogchenpa

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sat May 19, 2012 6:17 am

Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche has said that when physical death is arriving we can practice Ati Guru Yoga as a sufficient 'Phowa'.

Also:

http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.ph ... 963#p95111

http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=8379
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Re: Alternatives for the Dzogchenpa

Postby mindyourmind » Sat May 19, 2012 8:11 am

Andrew108 wrote:Madhyamaka is the answer. Internalizing it. Not just leaving it as heady philosophy.
For example:
''When it's time to leave this body, this illusionary tangle,
Don't cause yourself anxiety and grief;
The thing that you should train in and clear up for yourself -
There's no such thing as dying to be done.
It's just clear light, the mother, and child clear light uniting;
When mind forsakes the body, sheer delight!''
Götsangpa


:twothumbsup:

I haven't seen that quote in many a year, thanks.
As bad as bad becomes its not a part of you

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Re: Alternatives for the Dzogchenpa

Postby Andrew108 » Sat May 19, 2012 4:57 pm

I love Götsangpa. He is my hero.
The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.
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Re: Alternatives for the Dzogchenpa

Postby Malcolm » Sat May 19, 2012 5:12 pm

Sherlock wrote:Malcolm once said that if you received the teachings from ChNN and did the practice daily (I assume guru yoga?) he guarantees that you will face no difficulties upon death. I'd also be curious to know his answer.


Yes.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Alternatives for the Dzogchenpa

Postby Inge » Wed May 23, 2012 5:17 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sherlock wrote:Malcolm once said that if you received the teachings from ChNN and did the practice daily (I assume guru yoga?) he guarantees that you will face no difficulties upon death. I'd also be curious to know his answer.


Yes.

Is this also the case for non-recognizers like me?
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Re: Alternatives for the Dzogchenpa

Postby kalden yungdrung » Wed May 23, 2012 5:27 pm

Inge wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Sherlock wrote:Malcolm once said that if you received the teachings from ChNN and did the practice daily (I assume guru yoga?) he guarantees that you will face no difficulties upon death. I'd also be curious to know his answer.


Yes.

Is this also the case for non-recognizers like me?



Tashi delek,

Before the teachings get started, the Guru Yoga of that Dzogchen Teachings is practiced.
The human Guru is also inside the Lineage Transmission and the Buddha like Taphirista, Drenpa Namkha etc. are as well venerated inside the DzogchenTeachings. We honour both Gurus and those who are between.

Would say go to there and try the Teachings, you are allways everywhere welcome to follow Dzogchen Teachings and hear what they all more or less explain......

Dzogchen is non-sectarian, like allready earlier discussed here.

Mutsog Marro
KY
Last edited by kalden yungdrung on Wed May 23, 2012 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD
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Re: Alternatives for the Dzogchenpa

Postby Malcolm » Wed May 23, 2012 5:27 pm

Inge wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Sherlock wrote:Malcolm once said that if you received the teachings from ChNN and did the practice daily (I assume guru yoga?) he guarantees that you will face no difficulties upon death. I'd also be curious to know his answer.


Yes.

Is this also the case for non-recognizers like me?


If you apply Ati Guru Yoga with diligence, then you will face no difficulties at death.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Alternatives for the Dzogchenpa

Postby Sherlock » Thu May 24, 2012 10:26 am

I don't have the book at hand at the moment but this morning I was reading a part of the Precious Vase where it talks about how if you have faith in the guru and are diligent, the guru can come to your aid in the bardo, I assume this is what Malcolm is referring to, although he didn't state it outright.
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Re: Alternatives for the Dzogchenpa

Postby Sönam » Thu May 24, 2012 11:08 am

Sherlock wrote:I don't have the book at hand at the moment but this morning I was reading a part of the Precious Vase where it talks about how if you have faith in the guru and are diligent, the guru can come to your aid in the bardo, I assume this is what Malcolm is referring to, although he didn't state it outright.


In the bardo between birth and death too!

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
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Re: Alternatives for the Dzogchenpa

Postby Lhug-Pa » Fri May 25, 2012 3:59 pm

Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche wrote:The practice of Guru Yoga is the most profound and essential way of doing Phowa.
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