Gaudapada acknowledged the Buddha as the source of his ajativadin arguments. Shankaracarya sought to cover this up in his commentary on the Agamasastra. But we were not taking about the latter. We were talking about the former, and you were the one that used the term "plagiarism" to describe his literary activity. I have studied that Agamasastra in detail.
Actually Buddhist said that and Karma Dorje tried to change what he said. However I agree with buddhist on that. My main point which you try to evade despite being clearly stated is this. You might have got away with "ripping off" half of another religion as a new one god gave you 3000 years ago but not 1200 yers ago or today. That is what they claim to their ignorant average followers en-mass to this day and this is fraud. If you were honest you would have answered this point, of mine, I clearly put to you. You indulged in sophistry.
Proclaiming that Nisgardatta must have been a Buddhist Tulku can be seen as a kind of narrowness. This is a kind of narrowmindedness we see all the time among Buddhists -- everything good and interesting that we like in other religious schools must somehow be the activity of Buddhist tulkus, as if nothing good can come about in the world if it is not tied to some explicitly Buddhist institution or belief.
You are being dishonest again Malcolm. I did not say he must have been but probably was one as every one can read. These are cheap tactics. Then you extrapolate that I say everyone good in the world is a tulku. NO I DON'T. Then you call me narrowminded again based on this dishonest extrapolation and generalization and below say you never attacked me. Again untruths and dishonesty.
I made a blanket apology since I have said so many things and offended so many people, it is all I can do. I am sure people are still offended. But after a certain point it becomes their problem and not mine.
Right so you apologize to one of the biggest samaya breakers that opposed the Dalai Lama in person on his doorstep and Gelug principles by trying to pervert them plus his recent victim and a couple of fake tertons which to us Nyingmapas are the worst spirits reincarnated, ie the evil ministers of the great king, not to mention saying you were wrong in your good work to warn people off NKT and then forget to mention a major terton and a few tulkus to boot. OK, I'll see if I can swallow your word on this one.
All I said about Trungpa that he seemed to me like an ordinary person based on the related episode. I guess calling someone an ordinary person is a bad thing. I honestly do not know whether Trungpa was realized or not. And I don't care much. He has been dead for more than twenty years. Perhaps he was completely naive about guns. Really. I reacted when I said that. I am sorry it offended you.
No recently you said you doubted his realizations and said he was a jerk. Also your attacks on him goes back years. Again dishonest.
I have not defended anything, not have I attacked anyone. I have not attacked you either. I said you displayed narrowness in your post.
Well calling someone narrowminded for attacking Hindus when he just called one of them a probable saint is not an attack to you? You have been attacking Tibetan Buddhist institutions for the whole of this thread. Honestly you think people do not see that.
My point about this was when we examine who really persecuted Dzogchen teachings, it was not Non-Buddhists, all the Non-Buddhists I have ever talked with about Dzogchen think it is cool. The Bonpos were totally into Dzogchen. They took to it like ducks to water. There is no history of Bonpos attacking Dzogchen, none at all.
I have found it is Buddhists who raise the largest and most sustained arguments against Dzogchen. And so I recounted that history. These things are merely facts -- facts are not attacks. I can understand however that many people's hackles are raised because I am presenting these things in the open. I understand the polemics against Dzogchen quite well.
We have been saying these things for centuries but now is not the time for this. It is you who has just been struck by lightning on the way to Damascus.
I am quite sure there are false teachers in every religion, just as there are sincere ones. But since I am not privy to the sordid details of the false guides in other schools, I don't really have much to say about them. What I am familiar with is the situation of Tibetan Buddhism and the presence of a great deal of corruption and malfeasence in its institutions.
Yes you have been saying suddenly how they vicitimized Dzogchen and also how institutionalized Tibetan Buddhism "fleece and screw their flock" etc. etc. while painting a rosy picture of Hindus, Christians, Jews, Moslems and every other major tambourine holding group. Do you honestly think we believe every illetrate Joe Blog on the street has heard of Catholic priests after boys, or evangelical fornicating fraudster TV ministers, beheading command issuing mullahs, Charlie Mansons, etc. but you who reads so widely does not know of atrocities outside of Tibetan Buddhism? You yourself have listed so much of them over the years. Malcolm we are not children and this is not honest either.
Actually, I have not attacked anyone. I have critiqued the Buddhist reception of Dzogchen in both India and Tibet and traced a little bit of the history of how it became normalized within the institutions of Tibetan Buddhism.
No Namdrol. You have widened your age old attack on Tulkus onto Buddhist institutions and lamas after switching position. Frankly we Nyingmas have been feeling the edge of that blade for years but we do not throw the baby out with the bath water. Actually in our pure perception all beings are already enlightened but relatively and quietly we from all five schools and Rime (which you dismissed before too) do our work. The biggest problem right now is the Chinese regime and those who took institutional power gradually from a century ago and are now collaborating with the murdering regime inside Tibetan prisons and society. In a way those two are still the power institution problem in real-politique in Tibet. But you suddenly do not see any sense opposing this particular corrupt power anymore.
Now, I am sorry that you feel attacked, but I am equally certain that I am not attacking you or anyone else.
My case was to show you that you did. I also showed, again, that you did only attack Tibetan Buddhist institutions and whitewashed the mega murderous ones outside Tibet which have killed hundreds of millions in wars and billions in the last few centuries by policy which continues to this day with corrupt neo-colonial and global institutionalized policies. But hey what is a few hunred million by war or billions dead by policy between friends? The main problems is what you have listed in this thread. I politely disagree my friend.
Attacking Tibetan Buddhist institutions at a time when a whole nation and culture under repression is about to disappear and glorifying other traditions whose followers have killed oceans is not my priority right now.
Further you did not answer my point that so many perceive you are also attacking buddhism.
Plus if someone made personal attacks on others in my defence, I would immediately tell them off and set myself separate from them. You neither do this from age old days nor now, nor answered my point on this. This is bullying and unfair not what a gentleman would put up with. It is a basic question of decency and civility.
Continuing on this theme as you said on this forum some time ago, like e-sangha before, you have institutional influence and power here. So I am saving these posts and if like others I or my posts get "disappeared" we can continue this discussion on a blog I shall set up on an ongoing basis and there it will be a level playing ground. This might not be one of your basic principles but it is one of mine from pre buddhist days on being fair. I know how to make it have high hits on google so I am sure you and others will find it after a while in case I get disappeared.
Finally I would like to point out that I am typing these responses with a smile and consider you overall a good Vajra brother.
Wishing you all the best as ever.