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Ignorance/avijjā delusion/moha - Page 3 - Dhamma Wheel

Ignorance/avijjā delusion/moha

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Re: Ignorance/avijjā delusion/moha

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:29 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Ignorance/avijjā delusion/moha

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:32 am


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Re: Ignorance/avijjā delusion/moha

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:39 am

Greetings Tilt,

It's very imprecise though... what does he mean by "or"?

Inclusive OR? Exclusive OR? Equivalent/synonymous OR?

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Ignorance/avijjā delusion/moha

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:43 am


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Re: Ignorance/avijjā delusion/moha

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:46 am


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Re: Ignorance/avijjā delusion/moha

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:47 am

Greetings Tilt,

Thanks.

Iti 1.3, which you quoted, shows that eradicating moha results in non-return.

Other suttas teach that eradicating avijja results in arahantship.

Different, meaning that "Since we have already seen the Buddha defining delusion as ignorance" is incorrect - a mis-reading.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Ignorance/avijjā delusion/moha

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:50 am


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Re: Ignorance/avijjā delusion/moha

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:54 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Ignorance/avijjā delusion/moha

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:18 am


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Re: Ignorance/avijjā delusion/moha

Postby Aloka » Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:20 am

Sorry but I'm getting rather confused reading all of this !

Could I just ask if my assumption (at the beginning of the thread somewhere) that ignorance and delusion are the same thing was correct or incorrect, please ?



:anjali:

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Re: Ignorance/avijjā delusion/moha

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:29 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Ignorance/avijjā delusion/moha

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:30 am


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Re: Ignorance/avijjā delusion/moha

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:39 am


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Re: Ignorance/avijjā delusion/moha

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:52 am


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Re: Ignorance/avijjā delusion/moha

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:04 pm


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Re: Ignorance/avijjā delusion/moha

Postby Aloka » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:54 pm


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Re: Ignorance/avijjā delusion/moha

Postby pilgrim » Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:35 am

Reviving an old thread as i've been reading up on sankharas and understand that there is a subtle difference between Avijja ( which I'll call Ignorance) and Moha ( Delusion). The difference results in what we generally call good and bad kamma.

Every time we do something, we create sankharas. When we do something unwholesome (akusala), clearly we act out of Avijja which includes Moha and create unwholesome sankharas or apunnaabhi sankharas. But when we do something wholesome (kusala), there still is Avijja as we are not enlightened, but there is no Moha. In this case we create punnaabhi sankharas.

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Re: Ignorance/avijjā delusion/moha

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:36 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Ignorance/avijjā delusion/moha

Postby ancientbuddhism » Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:57 pm

I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes.” – Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854

Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)


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Re: Ignorance/avijjā delusion/moha

Postby waterchan » Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:49 pm

Vijjā means knowledge. In modern usage it can be used to mean knowledge and skill in the arts. In modern Burma, subjects like geography, history, language, and arts are often collectively referred to as "vijjā" subjects.

So Avijjā means not-knowledge. Moha is commonly translated as "delusion" in English but in some cultures, for example in the Burmese Theravada traditions, the monks often translate it as "not knowing". The Burmese monks seem to prefer the term avijjā when speaking in Abhidhamma terms.

So yeah, I'd say avijjā and moha are virtually synonomous.
quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur
(Anything in Latin sounds profound.)


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