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the great rebirth debate - Page 89 - Dhamma Wheel

the great rebirth debate

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Alex123
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Alex123 » Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:50 am

Hello Retro, Clw,

If Buddha would teach one life only, I am sure that suicide would be a logical culmination of the path for the brave ones. This is because taking up of another body would not be possible, and the action would be blameless (at least for a monk) according to the Buddha. In MN144 he said that suicide is blameless if one dies as an Arahant (no taking up of another body). I am in awe at the braveness of those sick monks who could slice their own throats in cold blood.

"if someone gives up this body and seizes another, I say it is a fault. In the bhikkhu that fault is not apparent. Bhikkhu Channa took his life faultlessly." - MN144. http://metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/ ... ada-e.html

But because there is rebirth, killing oneself will not end mental and physical suffering, unless one becomes an Arahant.

"Whatever is felt is included in suffering." yaṃ kiñci vedayitaṃ taṃ dukkhasmi’nti - SN 36.11(1)
All formations are stressful. Sabbe saṅkhārā dukkhā’’ti - Dhp 278

"It’s only suffering that comes to be, Suffering that stands and falls away. Nothing but suffering comes to be, Nothing but suffering ceases.”- SN 5.10 Vajirå Ven BB Trans.

I wish there was one life, and parinibbāna - an ultimate euthanasia- would be guaranteed for all. I could even make it occur faster and don't bother trying to become an arahant (which may or may not be possible for me in this life before death) so I would not have mental suffering from pains of this sack of flesh & filth...
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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tiltbillings
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:17 am


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Alex123
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Alex123 » Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:29 am

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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tiltbillings
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:31 am


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Alex123
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Alex123 » Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:36 am

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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tiltbillings
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:45 am


darvki
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby darvki » Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:47 am


Sanghamitta
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Sanghamitta » Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:52 am

The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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clw_uk
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby clw_uk » Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:46 am

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

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Sasana
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Sasana » Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:14 pm

"If the problem can be solved there's no use worrying about it, if it cant worrying will do no good." - 7 years in Tibet

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense." - The Buddha

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kirk5a
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby kirk5a » Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:48 pm

Ajahn Chah said something like "You can be right in fact, but if you cling, you are wrong in Dhamma."

Such an important distinction.
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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bodom
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby bodom » Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:56 pm

*Mod Note*

Everybody cut out the ad hom attacks and please get back to topic. If you are not in compliance there will be warnings issued next time. Please be respectful of each other. Thanks for your cooperation.


:anjali:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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Alex123
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Alex123 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:36 am

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

rls0810
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Can you be a Buddhist and not believe in reincarnation?

Postby rls0810 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:33 pm

I am attracted to everything I know about Buddhism (which admittedly is very miniscule so far,) and one of the things I find most attractive is that it teaches us for this world.
The idea of reincarnating and eventually making it to Nirvana seems to me to be not far from Judeo-Christian ideas of the afterlife.
Can you enlighten me?

Sanghamitta
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Re: Can you be a Buddhist and not believe in reincarnation?

Postby Sanghamitta » Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:41 pm

You can PRACTICE Buddhism without believing stuff. Many people do.
What is not honest to say that the Buddha did not teach Rebirth, he clearly did.
However it is not a belief based system. Its a practice based system , so what many people do is put Rebirth on the back burner and do the practises.
Oftentimes they find that what was difficult to accept, after a while becomes less of a problem.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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kirk5a
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Re: Can you be a Buddhist and not believe in reincarnation?

Postby kirk5a » Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:57 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

phil
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Re: Can you be a Buddhist and not believe in reincarnation?

Postby phil » Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:50 pm

Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)

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Wizard in the Forest
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Re: Can you be a Buddhist and not believe in reincarnation?

Postby Wizard in the Forest » Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:20 pm

"One is not born a woman, but becomes one."- Simone de Beauvoir

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kirk5a
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Re: Can you be a Buddhist and not believe in reincarnation?

Postby kirk5a » Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:40 pm

I'm not even entirely sure about the details of the continuation from yesterday through the stages of sleep and into today. But it happened! :woohoo:

So I have an open mind about tomorrow. Including allowing for the possibility there won't be one lol
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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Wizard in the Forest
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Re: Can you be a Buddhist and not believe in reincarnation?

Postby Wizard in the Forest » Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:48 pm

Definitely, and that's how one should remember the ideas of speculations of afterlife and even about speculations of past lives. I wouldn't worry too much about it and focus on the here and now, and how you can become aware of the moment.
"One is not born a woman, but becomes one."- Simone de Beauvoir


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