Institutional Buddhism

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Malcolm
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Institutional Buddhism

Postby Malcolm » Sat May 19, 2012 9:12 pm

Last edited by Malcolm on Sat May 19, 2012 9:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.




འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Sönam
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Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby Sönam » Sat May 19, 2012 9:22 pm

thank you ...

and now applauses :D
Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

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Karma Dorje
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Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby Karma Dorje » Sun May 20, 2012 5:09 pm

"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava

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Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby Malcolm » Sun May 20, 2012 5:12 pm

Last edited by Malcolm on Sun May 20, 2012 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.




འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Paul
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Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby Paul » Sun May 20, 2012 5:34 pm

Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumal
the modern mind has become so limited and single-visioned that it has lost touch with normal perception - John Michell

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Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby Malcolm » Sun May 20, 2012 6:50 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Paul
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Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:12 pm

Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby Paul » Sun May 20, 2012 8:47 pm

Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumal
the modern mind has become so limited and single-visioned that it has lost touch with normal perception - John Michell

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Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby Malcolm » Tue May 22, 2012 10:38 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

Matylda
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Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby Matylda » Tue May 22, 2012 11:28 pm


Josef
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Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby Josef » Wed May 23, 2012 12:03 am

The genuine lineage of Dzogchen is between the student and their teacher.
It is direct and precise, and not limited by Tibetan politics and historical hierarchy.
Last edited by Josef on Wed May 23, 2012 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

Josef
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Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby Josef » Wed May 23, 2012 12:04 am


username
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Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby username » Wed May 23, 2012 12:19 am

Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes

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Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby Malcolm » Wed May 23, 2012 1:49 am





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby Malcolm » Wed May 23, 2012 1:44 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Malcolm
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Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby Malcolm » Wed May 23, 2012 2:45 pm

Last edited by Malcolm on Wed May 23, 2012 2:52 pm, edited 4 times in total.




འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

Matylda
Posts: 554
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 3:32 pm

Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby Matylda » Wed May 23, 2012 3:22 pm


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Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby Malcolm » Thu May 24, 2012 3:01 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby Malcolm » Thu May 24, 2012 4:02 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby Malcolm » Thu May 24, 2012 4:09 pm

Last edited by Malcolm on Thu May 24, 2012 4:16 pm, edited 3 times in total.




འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Adamantine
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Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby Adamantine » Thu May 24, 2012 4:12 pm

Dechen's post is a nice hypothetical fantasy. We could substitute "Buddhist practitioner" in the same sentence he uses "Seems to me that this doesn't necessarily makes you anything else than a Dzogchen practitioner."

"Seems to me that this doesn't necessarily makes you anything else than a Buddhist practitioner."

It doesn't matter, both are labels. They refer to the same thing.

Let's examine: ChNN and other teacher of Dzogchen point out that for most of us, we will not reach liberation in this life, but in the bardo. Like the Garuda, born fully grown once the egg hatches. How are we to interpret this outside of the teachings on the bardo? As a Christian, or Muslim, or Amazonian Shaman, you will have your own structured belief about what happens immediately at the time of death, which may contradict bardo teachings. How does this fit with the argument that any denomination of any tradition can also be a full-fledged Dzogchen practitioner? At a certain point, they will have to choose to discard one version, or the other, ---or both will lose all sense. If we don't believe in samsara, and rebirth, as Dzongsar Khyentse pointed out in his teachings on Abandoning the Four Attachments: it would be a lot easier and more fun to just rob a bank and retire to some exotic island, enjoying sensory pleasures indefinitely. Dharma practice can bring more apparent suffering to us, then immediate pleasure, in which case, if you abandoned thoughts of future lives it would render it pointless. Certainly, if you can instantly abide in Rigpa 24-7 this may not be the case, but none of us are in that situation, with that capacity.
It seems all or most of the people arguing for an autonomous Dzogchen are part of the Dzogchen Community, --as Malcolm points out, a very human institution. Are we arguing for a Dzogchen without the Dzogchen Community? Why would we? That's where the teachings are held, cared for, and transmitted. Same with Buddhism. And they are not different. In DC, Rinpoche has us do Tuns and Ganapujas which have very Buddhist, tantric, practices..
Deity Yoga, mantra recitation, seven line prayer, protectors, etc.
Where is the perfect example of an autonomous Dzogchen vehicle? I don't buy Dechen's hypothetical fantasy!
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha


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