Any regular Mahamudra webcasts?

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Re: Any regular Mahamudra webcasts?

Postby Stewart » Tue May 15, 2012 2:19 pm

Namdrol wrote:
Astus wrote:Mahamudra is not as bound to transmissions as Dzogchen,


Mahāmudra, like Dzogchen, is dependent on direct introduction.

N


Just read this thread....why do you think Mahamudra doesn't require transmission?! It is essential.
s.
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Re: Any regular Mahamudra webcasts?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Tue May 15, 2012 2:37 pm

http://www.rinpoche.com/teachings/ktginterview-1.pdf

Was going to say that maybe Sutra Mahamudra is not dependent on Direct Introduction, but it looks like it is:

http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.ph ... 100#p76753

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&saf ... 66&bih=673

So the quotes found in the following post I think have to be understood in context:

viewtopic.php?f=100&t=8290#p99699

:reading:
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Re: Any regular Mahamudra webcasts?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue May 15, 2012 5:19 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:Was going to say that maybe Sutra Mahamudra is not dependent on Direct Introduction, but it looks like it is...
Of course it is, just you have to build up "momentum" first through the preliminaries.
Tilopa’s Ganges Mahamudra Oral Instructions
Translated by Daniel Brown, Ph.D.
1. Out of respect for the lineage, who developed these instructions to counter an ocean of suffering in Samsara, let me pour this View into your mind, my friends.
2. Although Mahamudra isn’t anything I can really explain.
Just let go, and hold this vantage point of mind, without artificial meditation strategies, and freshly [without conceptualization].
Just as space has no substance to it, Likewise, the real nature of the mind, Mahamudra, has no substance that can serve as a support to focus on
3. Cling to nothing as I speak, and there is no doubt, liberation will come.
Take this View as if you were looking directly into awareness-itself, like space, in such a way that you aren’t trying to see, because from this vantage point, awareness sees itself by itself.
And when all attempts to conceptualize cease, you will attain perfect awakening.
4. Clouds float through space, but don’t go anywhere, or stay anywhere.
In the same way conceptualization arises in the mind, but from the vantage point of the real nature of the mind, thought is like waves that become calm.
5. Just as space has no color. It has no form.
It has no darkness. No light. It is changeless.
Likewise, the real nature of the mind has no color, no form, nor is it tinged by the darkness of bad, nor the light of virtuous actions.
6. For thousands of aeons, the sun that shines everyday day has never been clouded by darkness.
Likewise, the real nature of the mind’s clear-light of awareness has never been clouded by the cycle of Samsara.
7. You’ll probably conceptualize about the mind in so many ways, calling it “empty space’ or ‘clear-light’ but you can’t really explain it in words.
This mind is...insubstantial, and words won’t make awakening happen.
8. The real nature of the mind is always right here, beginning less, endless, like vast space that saturates everything!
So my dear friends, now stop doing anything to set up your body posture, shut your mouth, be quiet, and don’t think about anything whatsoever.
Simply take this vantage point, as the teaching beyond all practices.
9. The body has no substance, like the hollow inside of a bamboo stalk.
And the mind, like space itself, is beyond any intended meditation object.
So let go of any artificial strategies of meditating. Let go of meditating.
And when this mind reflects itself to itself, right here is Mahamudraawakening.
10. You will not see the clear-light of Mahamudra by chanting mantras, reading the wisdom texts or sutras on emptiness, or by practicing ethical precepts.
When the [ordinary] mind [incessantly reacts] by moving away from practices it dislikes and moving toward practices it likes.
You stay obscured and will not see the clear-light of Mahamudra-awakening.
11. Having ideas about how you routinely keep your vows, trying to conceptualize how you might [awaken], just makes to stray from this truth.
This truth is beyond the reactivity of the mind moving away or moving toward anything.
Don’t particularize anything, and whatever seems to arise by itself, immediately becomes calm by itself, and so the mind remains like a still pool of water.
12. Never leave Thatness, but don’t stay in it either, and don’t try to represent it.
Simply vow never to leave it, and nothing will obscure the flames [of awakening!].
Beyond the reactivity of the [ordinary] mind moving toward and moving away, not trying to stay, not even trying to see it, then you will see everything there is to see!
13. Conduct an examination-meditation right now on the Truth, and you will become liberated from the prison of Samsara.
Then, in you samadhi-meditation, right now, the flames of this Truth will burn up all the bad karma and obscurations.
Those who are unable to appreciate this Truth are toss about in the sea of Samsara.
14. Those foolish beings who continuously get caught up in negative states of misery and sorrow.
All these sorry folks who wish to be free, need only depend on the teacher’s pointing out instructions.
15. So my friends, everything that exists within Samsara is only the cause of suffering, not the cause of Truth.
The essence of this teaching is: to do nothing, other than taking the vantage point of what is the essence of Truth.
16. The King of Views is: Going beyond subject/object duality.
The King of Meditation is: Holding this vantage point uninterruptedly.
The King of Practice is: Do nothing. Do not search for anything.
Be without any expectation of gain or fear of failure, and your realization will directly come to fruition.
17. So now move beyond any intended meditation object to the real nature
of the mind’s awareness self-illuminating itself to itself.
There is no path to walk.... and you are already facing Buddha-mind as your mind.
And when you are familiar with what its like meditating in this way, without any intended meditation object, and it is perfect, now you awaken!
18. So my friends, please understand me well. Everything that seems to exist in this world is impermanent, like a mirage or a dream, and as such, mirages and dreams are not the Truth.
19. So at least for now put aside everyday activities, break connection with [ordinary] sensory experience.
It only generates more desire and aversion.
Dwell in the forests or mountains and meditate.
Yet, [above all] stay in this vantage point of non-meditation, and when you don’t try to attain it, you will attain Mahamudra-awakening.
20. The leaves and branches of a tree whither and wilt when its roots are cut.
Likewise, cut the roots of the mind, and the leaves and branches of Samsara end.
21. The smallest lamp can eliminate darkness that has accumulated for thousands of eons.
Likewise, a singe flame of the clear-light of the mind’s awareness self-illuminating itself to itself, in a single instant, eliminates all the ignorance, obscurations, and defilements, that have accumulated for eons.
22. So my friends, don’t conceptualize this, or you won’t see the Truth that is beyond all conceptualization.
Don’t engage in any artificial meditation strategies, or you won’t see the Truth that is beyond all doing.
So if you want this Truth, it is beyond all conceptualization and all artificial meditation strategies.
23. Use your sword of emptiness everywhere, and cut to the root, and hold the vantage point freshly.
Purify the muddy water of conceptualizing until it becomes clear.
Ease up so you let whatever arises come forth in its own right [self-contentedly].
Don’t do anything. Do not make anything happen nor prevent anything from happening.
24. Do not hold onto anything, nor let anything go, and right here, is Mahamudra-awakening, and you are freed from Samsara.
All that obscures, even the subtlest propensities cease.
The awakened mind, always right here, self-illuminates the storehouse of all potential experience.
25. Complete liberation from all extreme [views].
This is the Supreme View.
Wide and deep and limitless.
This is the Supreme Meditation.
Beyond any intention or cutting anything off.
This is the Supreme Practice.
Beyond all expectation of outcome or fear of failure, the mind frees itself.
This is the Supreme Fruition.
26. At first awakening the mind is like a fast-moving waterfall.
Then, it flows gently like the vast Ganges, and finally, it is a great ocean wherein the infant of individual consciousness and the dharmakaya mother consciousness flow into one another.
27. For those less intelligent who can’t stay [continuously] in the vantage point of awakened wisdom [once you taste it]
You can [once again] stay on the breath, and distill the nectar of awareness with many concentration practices, [and when your concentration is strong
again] above all learn to hold the vantage point of awareness-itself
28. If you take that vantage point as your support, Awakened Wisdom arises, its radiance, its emptiness.
Through empowerment, entering samadhi, then insight, [the seeds of] this Awakened Wisdom are gently drawn into the mandala [in your heart], then manifest in various sites in your body, then saturate your entire being.
When you don’t grasp for it, Awakened Wisdom arises, its radiance, its emptiness.
29. You will seem ageless and healthy like the waxing moon.
You become radiant. You’ll seem to have the strength of a lion, and all the ordinary [positive states] and special powers of a Buddha will flourish.
This is my oral advice to you, my friends, on the essence of Mahamudraawakening.
Let it stay uninterruptedly in your heart, and in the hearts of all sentient beings!

:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Any regular Mahamudra webcasts?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Tue May 15, 2012 10:01 pm

Thanks Gregkavarnos.

Tilopa is apparently saying (by the way, I take it that is a quote specifically on the essence of Sutra Mahamudra?) the same thing that Jamgon Kongtrul Rinpoche is here:

The Vast View

So perhaps it is that when we actually apply directly and uncontrivedly the advice given by these Masters, the following type of analysis is only nit-picking?

A Dharmawheel post quoting Fundamentals of Dzogchen Meditation

Although noting these apparent differences may still be worthwhile.

:anjali:
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Re: Any regular Mahamudra webcasts?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed May 16, 2012 9:20 am

Lhug-Pa wrote:... (by the way, I take it that is a quote specifically on the essence of Sutra Mahamudra?) ...
:rolling: No my friend, Sutra Mahamudra came later with Gampopa etc... From Vajradhara, Tilopa, Naropa, Saraha, Savaripa, Nagarjuna, Marpa and Milarepa (for the Karma Kagyu Mahamudra lineage) you got it in one! The essential nature of the teaching remained unchanged, Mahamudra is Mahamudra after all, hence the similarities with the Sutra method, but the method changed to a more step by step, or gradual, one (culminating in a pointing out).
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Any regular Mahamudra webcasts?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Wed May 16, 2012 12:39 pm

Oh so you were quoting Tilopa on the very essence of Mahamudra regardless of Sutra, Tantra, or Essence Mahamudra (my first clue probably should have been Tilopa's Ganges Mahamudra in the title), whether one gets there gradually or not so gradually. I thought since you mentioned preliminaries in response to my mentioning of Direct Introduction in relation to Sutra Mahamudra, that you were quoting Tilopa regarding Sutra Mahamudra (albeit the culmination of it) specifically; but I wondered why it didn't seem to correspond lol. I only have a very general idea of the differences between Sutra Mahamudra, Tantra Mahamudra, and Essence Mahamudra. Don't mind me, just showing my own ignorance as usual.

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Re: Any regular Mahamudra webcasts?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed May 16, 2012 1:29 pm

I'm no expert either!
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Any regular Mahamudra webcasts?

Postby Astus » Wed May 16, 2012 2:52 pm

Sutra Mahamudra is just what Mahamudra as a gradual path is understood. Tantra Mahamudra is what is found in completion stage. Essence Mahamudra is the nature of mind and it being pointed out as the method. But this is just one way to explain the different forms of Mahamudra.
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T51n2076, p461b24-26)
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Re: Any regular Mahamudra webcasts?

Postby Andrew108 » Wed May 16, 2012 8:41 pm

The point for all of these three is that the student develop certainty.
So as KTGR says, the realization here is certainty about the nature of mind - that it is unborn and so on. One method is not higher than another - it's just about how people get that certainty and that's the realization. All of these mahamudra methods or traditions help bring about certainty within this life time if followed correctly.
The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.
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Re: Any regular Mahamudra webcasts?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed May 16, 2012 8:49 pm

Nobody said anything about higher and lower, each method appeals to the different karmic preponderances of individuals.
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Any regular Mahamudra webcasts?

Postby Andrew108 » Wed May 16, 2012 8:51 pm

:namaste: Yep
The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.
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Re: Any regular Mahamudra webcasts?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sat May 19, 2012 7:52 am

cf here viewtopic.php?f=100&t=6459&start=0#p76375 for lots of excellent information.
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Any regular Mahamudra webcasts?

Postby mindyourmind » Sat May 19, 2012 7:57 am

gregkavarnos wrote:cf here viewtopic.php?f=100&t=6459&start=0#p76375 for lots of excellent information.
:namaste:


On webcasts?
As bad as bad becomes its not a part of you

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Re: Any regular Mahamudra webcasts?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sat May 19, 2012 9:35 am

No, silly, on Mahamudra!
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Any regular Mahamudra webcasts?

Postby mindyourmind » Sat May 19, 2012 11:25 am

gregkavarnos wrote:No, silly, on Mahamudra!
:namaste:


Sorry, I thought the thread was about webcasts :jedi:
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Re: Any regular Mahamudra webcasts?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sat May 19, 2012 1:56 pm

Well it was, now it's about Mahamudra (at least it seems so...).
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Any regular Mahamudra webcasts?

Postby mindyourmind » Sat May 19, 2012 3:39 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:Well it was, now it's about Mahamudra (at least it seems so...).
:namaste:


Just messing with you. Any talk about MM is always good with me.
Thanks for the reference.
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Re: Any regular Mahamudra webcasts?

Postby DharmaKitty » Sun May 20, 2012 10:57 am

gregkavarnos wrote:Well it was, now it's about Mahamudra (at least it seems so...).
:namaste:


Well that's a change - most threads become about Dzogchen...

Anyway :focus: webcasts/mahamudra
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Re: Any regular Mahamudra webcasts?

Postby mindyourmind » Fri May 25, 2012 10:26 am

Also maybe have a look at Lama Karma's ngondro webcast over the weekend.

http://www.kagyu.org/ktd/Ngondro-Retreat/index.php
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