Triyik Yeshe Lama.

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Re: Triyik Yeshe Lama.

Postby kalden yungdrung » Fri May 18, 2012 10:32 pm

Malcolm wrote:
deepbluehum wrote:I realize this thread is about Triyik Yeshe Lama, but the Bonpo Dzogchen practitioner might be interested to know that the Shardza Tashi Gyaltsen text translated as "Heartdrops of the Dharmakaya" is a very useful instruction that covers all the same topics covered in Yeshe Lama, but has the nice feature of not being wordy and being very down to earth. Of course there are those who will disagree, but I feel the description of the view in the section on Trekcho is very good. I have had the transmissions of many Dzogchen texts and I find myself coming back to "Heartdrops" more and more, especially as my practice develops, I find its simplicity to be easy to read when you need a short glance and don't want to get too heady into information.



Many years ago, in 1992, ChNN advised us not to look at thogal texts prior to receiving total instructions. So people in the DC should not read that or any other togal text just because they feel like it. They should wait until ChNN or some other qualified master can bestow the teaching on them in a proper way.

My point about availability is a little different, however. I feel the text classical texts should be available, since to a large extent they are self-secret. But this does not mean people should just go ahead and read them without having had the instruction from a qualified teacher. If they do, there is a good chance they will create obstacles for their practice. So people should be mature.

N



Tashi delek,

In addition to Deepbluehum's contribution of Heart drops of Dharmakaya by Shardza Tashi Rinpoche and translated by Lopon Tenzin Namdak Rinpoche, here the reason why Lopon Lak did publish that text:

Od gsal rdzogs pa chen po'i lam gyi rim pa khrid yig kun tu bzang po'i snying tig shes bya ba zhugs

1. The Bonpo Dzogchen Guardians have ordered the Masters to teach it openly
2. Dzogchen Teachings are an open secret i.e. if one has no capacity then one will not be able to understand them and will not be interested in reading
3. For those who have the capacity and connection, it may bring great benefit by providing a link to the text and Master which they can then follow if they wish to enter the way of dzogchen
4. It is clearly stated in the text that if one wishes to put these Teachings into practice then just reading the book is not enough. One must find and follow an authentic Master.

So reading is different than doing the practice. i guess it is always good to have some knowledge before one gets started.


Mutsog marro
KY
THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD
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Re: Triyik Yeshe Lama.

Postby Andrew108 » Fri May 18, 2012 10:42 pm

I would agree with this but others certainly don't. Thanks for posting the other point of view.
The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.
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Re: Triyik Yeshe Lama.

Postby Malcolm » Sat May 19, 2012 12:17 am

kalden yungdrung wrote:
1. The Bonpo Dzogchen Guardians have ordered the Masters to teach it openly
2. Dzogchen Teachings are an open secret i.e. if one has no capacity then one will not be able to understand them and will not be interested in reading
3. For those who have the capacity and connection, it may bring great benefit by providing a link to the text and Master which they can then follow if they wish to enter the way of dzogchen
4. It is clearly stated in the text that if one wishes to put these Teachings into practice then just reading the book is not enough. One must find and follow an authentic Master.

So reading is different than doing the practice. i guess it is always good to have some knowledge before one gets started.


I was not talking about other people, I was referring to how those who consider themselves students of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu ought to behave.

I, for one:
a) have no problem with all Dzogchen teachings be taught openly.

b) do not consider Dzogchen secret in anyway. "Secret" does not mean "...never show anyone" -- it means, only show it to those who are interested. Do not talk about thogal, etc., on internet forums, bars and coffee shops. For example, Tibetans call one's private parts "gsang gnas", the secret place. So, just like we do not expose our penises and vaginas in public places, and only show them to people who are interested, likewise, these teachings should only be shown to people who are interested. They should not be made available so people can make a kind of book collection.

c) people who want to read Heartdrops can buy the book. I do not support this idea that all books should be downoadable for free.

4) Yes, I know. It says this clearly.

M
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Triyik Yeshe Lama.

Postby Marten » Mon May 21, 2012 7:20 pm

I have studied both the Berotsana as well as the Tony Duff translations of Triyik Yeshe Lama. They are nearly identical. I also have studied the 4th volume of The Light of Wisdom series and Yanthang Rinpoche's commentary on Yeshe Lama. Just what is so super secret and why it is so super secret is a little beyond me, although thod rgal is obviously difficult to get one's head around if just reading from a book! It can also lead to a lot of pointless imagining and distraction, if only casually learnt from a book.

I see khregs chod as something far more important and far more accessible and, as the texts say, without khregs chod, you can't have thod rgal. Thod rgal, at least according to teachers with whom I have discussed this, tends to come by itself when khregs chod is solidly developed.

But, when all is said and done, if you read the Theravāda texts, it all comes down to moving from the settling body and breath from gross to subtle, to subtler, to subtlest, letting go and mindfully abiding. Khregs chod definitely assists in helping this process along, but only when one is acutely aware of the moment-to-moment changes from gross to subtle.
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