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Kindness higher than noble friendship? - Dhamma Wheel

Kindness higher than noble friendship?

A forum for beginners and members of other Buddhist traditions to ask questions about Theravāda (The Way of the Elders). Responses require moderator approval before they are visible.
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Hanzze
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Kindness higher than noble friendship?

Postby Hanzze » Thu Nov 25, 2010 6:08 am

What do Theravadin think?
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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retrofuturist
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Re: Kindness higher than noble friendship?

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Nov 25, 2010 7:25 am

Greetings Hanzze,

Would it be worth specifying the Pali terms that correspond with what you think we ought to be comparing?

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Hanzze
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Re: Kindness higher than noble friendship?

Postby Hanzze » Thu Nov 25, 2010 7:42 am

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Hanzze
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Re: Kindness higher than noble friendship?

Postby Hanzze » Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:03 am

Avera (not Anuggaha) vs. Mittatta

Being just avera (kindly, friendly) vs. searching or acting for mittatā (kalyana mittata) (kusala/heal full friendship)

No post without learning, thanks!
Last edited by Hanzze on Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

plwk
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Re: Kindness higher than noble friendship?

Postby plwk » Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:07 am


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Hanzze
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Re: Kindness higher than noble friendship?

Postby Hanzze » Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:13 am

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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retrofuturist
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Re: Kindness higher than noble friendship?

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:31 am

Greetings Hanzze,

I see metta as kindness... it's often translated into English as loving-kindness.

What is interesting too though, is that I struggle to conceive of any form of noble friendship that isn't based on metta / kindness... so to me they don't seem like things that are in conflict, one is just a potential consequence of the other.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Hanzze
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Re: Kindness higher than noble friendship?

Postby Hanzze » Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:42 am

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

Sanghamitta
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Re: Kindness higher than noble friendship?

Postby Sanghamitta » Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:45 am

The Buddha said that friendship was not half, but all of spiritual life.
Samyutta Nikaya 2.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

rowyourboat
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Re: Kindness higher than noble friendship?

Postby rowyourboat » Thu Nov 25, 2010 6:37 pm

What about the kindness that uses harsh words to set someone off on the right path?
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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Hanzze
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Re: Kindness higher than noble friendship?

Postby Hanzze » Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:35 pm

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

dhammapal
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Re: Kindness higher than noble friendship?

Postby dhammapal » Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:50 am







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Hanzze
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Re: Kindness higher than noble friendship?

Postby Hanzze » Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:45 am

Exzellent Exzellent Exzellent
_/\_
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

Hoo
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Re: Kindness higher than noble friendship?

Postby Hoo » Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:22 pm


rowyourboat
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Re: Kindness higher than noble friendship?

Postby rowyourboat » Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:53 pm

"Come now, prince. Go to Gotama the contemplative and on arrival say this: 'Lord, would the Tathagata say words that are unendearing & disagreeable to others?' If Gotama the contemplative, thus asked, answers, 'The Tathagata would say words that are unendearing & disagreeable to others,' then you should say, 'Then how is there any difference between you, lord, and run-of-the-mill people? For even run-of-the-mill people say words that are unendearing & disagreeable to others.' But if Gotama the contemplative, thus asked, answers, 'The Tathagata would not say words that are unendearing & disagreeable to others,' then you should say, 'Then how, lord, did you say of Devadatta that "Devadatta is headed for destitution, Devadatta is headed for hell, Devadatta will boil for an eon, Devadatta is incurable"? For Devadatta was upset & disgruntled at those words of yours.' When Gotama the contemplative is asked this two-pronged question by you, he won't be able to swallow it down or spit it up. Just as if a two-horned chestnut[1] were stuck in a man's throat: he would not be able to swallow it down or spit it up. In the same way, when Gotama the contemplative is asked this two-pronged question by you, he won't be able to swallow it down or spit it up."

Responding, "As you say, venerable sir," Prince Abhaya got up from his seat, bowed down to Nigantha Nataputta, circumambulated him, and then went to the Blessed One. On arrival, he bowed down to the Blessed One and sat to one side. As he was sitting there, he glanced up at the sun and thought, "Today is not the time to refute the Blessed One's words. Tomorrow in my own home I will overturn the Blessed One's words." So he said to the Blessed One, "May the Blessed One, together with three others, acquiesce to my offer of tomorrow's meal."

The Blessed One acquiesced with silence.

Then Prince Abhaya, understanding the Blessed One's acquiescence, got up from his seat, bowed down to the Blessed One, circumambulated him, and left.

Then, after the night had passed, the Blessed One early in the morning put on his robes and, carrying his bowl and outer robe, went to Prince Abhaya's home. On arrival, he sat down on a seat made ready. Prince Abhaya, with his own hand, served & satisfied the Blessed One with fine staple & non-staple foods. Then, when the Blessed One had eaten and had removed his hand from his bowl, Prince Abhaya took a lower seat and sat to one side. As he was sitting there he said to the Blessed One, "Lord, would the Tathagata say words that are unendearing & disagreeable to others?"

"Prince, there is no categorical yes-or-no answer to that."

"Then right here, lord, the Niganthas are destroyed."

"But prince, why do you say, 'Then right here, lord, the Niganthas are destroyed'?"

"Just yesterday, lord, I went to Nigantha Nataputta and... he said to me...'Come now, prince. Go to Gotama the contemplative and on arrival say this: "Lord, would the Tathagata say words that are unendearing & disagreeable to others?"... Just as if a two-horned chestnut were stuck in a man's throat: he would not be able to swallow it down or spit it up. In the same way, when Gotama the contemplative is asked this two-pronged question by you, he won't be able to swallow it down or spit it up.'"

Now at that time a baby boy was lying face-up on the prince's lap. So the Blessed One said to the prince, "What do you think, prince: If this young boy, through your own negligence or that of the nurse, were to take a stick or a piece of gravel into its mouth, what would you do?"

"I would take it out, lord. If I couldn't get it out right away, then holding its head in my left hand and crooking a finger of my right, I would take it out, even if it meant drawing blood. Why is that? Because I have sympathy for the young boy."

"In the same way, prince:

[1] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be unfactual, untrue, unbeneficial (or: not connected with the goal), unendearing & disagreeable to others, he does not say them.

[2] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, unbeneficial, unendearing & disagreeable to others, he does not say them.

[3] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, but unendearing & disagreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them.

[4] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be unfactual, untrue, unbeneficial, but endearing & agreeable to others, he does not say them.

[5] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, unbeneficial, but endearing & agreeable to others, he does not say them.

[6] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, and endearing & agreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them. Why is that? Because the Tathagata has sympathy for living beings."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

with metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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Hanzze
Posts: 1906
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Re: Kindness higher than noble friendship?

Postby Hanzze » Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:24 pm

Exzellent Exzellent Exzellent
_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

fijiNut
Posts: 124
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:11 am

Re: Kindness higher than noble friendship?

Postby fijiNut » Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:08 pm



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