protection from lower realms

[dakini_boi]

The method of Dzogchen to protect practitioners from the three lower realms has not one single thing to do with tantric methods, Buddhist or Bon.

Are you referring to the purification of the six lokas? If so, how can what you said be so, when the practice includes visualization & generation of deity?

[Malcolm]

The method of Dzogchen to protect practitioners from the three lower realms has not one single thing to do with tantric methods, Buddhist or Bon.

Are you referring to the purification of the six lokas? If so, how can what you said be so, when the practice includes visualization & generation of deity?

I was not referring to the rushen practice of purification of the six lokas. Six lokas practice definitely does not necessarily included generation of a deity, though I have seen systems where it does.

M

[Dronma]

The method of Dzogchen to protect practitioners from the three lower realms has not one single thing to do with tantric methods, Buddhist or Bon.

Are you referring to the purification of the six lokas? If so, how can what you said be so, when the practice includes visualization & generation of deity?

All practices of the Purification of Six Lokas from the Longsal Cycle include: Refuge and Bodhichitta, Guru Yoga with Padmasambhava, 6 Syllables of Samantabhadra, Song of the Vajra, and Dedication of Merits.
Especially the one, which is preliminary of the Path of Ati, includes visualization of Vajrasattva for purification.

[trevor]

Is Guru Yoga sufficient for protection?

[Dronma]

Is Guru Yoga sufficient for protection?

ChNN Rinpoche says that since practitioners do Guru Yoga, they are protected by the Guardians of the teachings.
Moreover, there are more elaborated practices for protection, if it is necessary under different circumstances.
But the Purification of 6 Lokas is not really for protection! It is for purification of the karmic causes which lead beings to take rebirth in one of the 6 Lokas.

[Pero]

Is Guru Yoga sufficient for protection?

ChNN Rinpoche says that since practitioners do Guru Yoga, they are protected by the Guardians of the teachings.
Moreover, there are more elaborated practices for protection, if it is necessary under different circumstances.
But the Purification of 6 Lokas is not really for protection! It is for purification of the karmic causes which lead beings to take rebirth in one of the 6 Lokas.

That's not what he meant. He meant "protection" from being reborn in the three lower realms. Rushen in general does that.
I think GY may be sufficient.

[Malcolm]

The method of Dzogchen to protect practitioners from the three lower realms has not one single thing to do with tantric methods, Buddhist or Bon.

Are you referring to the purification of the six lokas? If so, how can what you said be so, when the practice includes visualization & generation of deity?

All practices of the Purification of Six Lokas from the Longsal Cycle include: Refuge and Bodhichitta, Guru Yoga with Padmasambhava, 6 Syllables of Samantabhadra, Song of the Vajra, and Dedication of Merits.
Especially the one, which is preliminary of the Path of Ati, includes visualization of Vajrasattva for purification.

It is sufficient to do Ati Guru Yoga and then engage in purification of six lokas. One can recite SOV or not, depending on how you feel. Then dedicate.

One can also do the Long Longsal Ngondro as you mention above. It is a beautiful practice. There is also another six lokas purification which ChNN will teach this year which is based on physical postures and breathing called "self liberation of the six lokas". It is very interesting.

So there is, like with everything, an essential way, a medium way and a more elborate way, depending on your time and how you feel.

[Dronma]

It is sufficient to do Ati Guru Yoga and then engage in purification of six lokas. One can recite SOV or not, depending on how you feel. Then dedicate.

One can also do the Long Longsal Ngondro as you mention above. It is a beautiful practice. There is also another six lokas purification which ChNN will teach this year which is based on physical postures and breathing called "self liberation of the six lokas". It is very interesting.

So there is, like with everything, an essential way, a medium way and a more elborate way, depending on your time and how you feel.

Hi Malcolm!
I am not sure if you are replying to dakini_boi or me, but I thank you anyway.
I already know all of that you are writing here - in fact I am not so new, nor so young....
I have received all the transmissions for the different practices of the Purification of Six Lokas and I have been engaged in it for some time. It is one of my favorite practices!

[Bhusuku]

There is also another six lokas purification which ChNN will teach this year which is based on physical postures and breathing called "self liberation of the six lokas".

You mean the rgyud drug rang grol gyi man ngag? If so, when will he give these teachings? I've only seen that he's going to teach on the ati'i lam gnad sngon 'gro in Greece this year...

[Pero]

There is also another six lokas purification which ChNN will teach this year which is based on physical postures and breathing called "self liberation of the six lokas".

You mean the rgyud drug rang grol gyi man ngag? If so, when will he give these teachings? I've only seen that he's going to teach on the ati'i lam gnad sngon 'gro in Greece this year...

I think Malcolm confused it a bit, Rinpoche will be giving what you said and the klong gsal a ti’i dgongs pa sgo ‘byed (Opening of the gate to the state of Ati) which is also a practice of the purification of 6 lokas.

[Bhusuku]

I think Malcolm confused it a bit

Thanks, Pero - this was my assumption too...

klong gsal a ti’i dgongs pa sgo ‘byed (Opening of the gate to the state of Ati) which is also a practice of the purification of 6 lokas.

Really? I didn't know that. So, how many different purification of 6 lokas practices are there in the community?

[Pero]

I think Malcolm confused it a bit

Thanks, Pero - this was my assumption too...

klong gsal a ti’i dgongs pa sgo ‘byed (Opening of the gate to the state of Ati) which is also a practice of the purification of 6 lokas.

Really? I didn't know that. So, how many different purification of 6 lokas practices are there in the community?

Four. But more if you consider that Rinpoche sometimes gives teachings from various teachers that also contain it (I remember some Changchub Dorje terma and Sangya Lingpa's terma for example, or straight from Dzogchen tantras). It just indicates that it's a very important practice (I think Rinpoche also said something like this). But usually there is not that much difference between them.

[Sönam]

A thought ...

So many different and elaborate practices for such a thing like Dzogchen ...

Sönam

[Pero]

A thought ...

So many different and elaborate practices for such a thing like Dzogchen ...

I'm sorry, I don't get your point?

[Sönam]

A thought ...

So many different and elaborate practices for such a thing like Dzogchen ...

I'm sorry, I don't get your point?

Dzogchen is direct introduction ... then having no doubt about, then stabilizing it until full realization. To do so you practice Guru Yoga, to help to practice Guru Yoga you can sing AH and visualize a Tibetan AH within a thilé.
But so many practices of this or that, protectors and so on for something so simple as Dzogchen.
As Namkhai Norbu repeated once more wednesday ... when we do some method of transformation it's always Anuyoga.
So you see, there is no point precisely.

Sönam

[Pero]

A thought ...

So many different and elaborate practices for such a thing like Dzogchen ...

I'm sorry, I don't get your point?

Dzogchen is direct introduction ... then having no doubt about, then stabilizing it until full realization. To do so you practice Guru Yoga, to help to practice Guru Yoga you can sing AH and visualize a Tibetan AH within a thilé.
But so many practices of this or that, protectors and so on for something so simple as Dzogchen.
As Namkhai Norbu repeated once more wednesday ... when we do some method of transformation it's always Anuyoga.
So you see, there is no point precisely.

But Rushen is most certainly Atiyoga.