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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 5:00 pm 
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Namdrol wrote:
The method of Dzogchen to protect practitioners from the three lower realms has not one single thing to do with tantric methods, Buddhist or Bon.


Are you referring to the purification of the six lokas? If so, how can what you said be so, when the practice includes visualization & generation of deity?


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 6:00 pm 
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dakini_boi wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
The method of Dzogchen to protect practitioners from the three lower realms has not one single thing to do with tantric methods, Buddhist or Bon.


Are you referring to the purification of the six lokas? If so, how can what you said be so, when the practice includes visualization & generation of deity?



I was not referring to the rushen practice of purification of the six lokas. Six lokas practice definitely does not necessarily included generation of a deity, though I have seen systems where it does.

M

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 7:21 pm 
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dakini_boi wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
The method of Dzogchen to protect practitioners from the three lower realms has not one single thing to do with tantric methods, Buddhist or Bon.


Are you referring to the purification of the six lokas? If so, how can what you said be so, when the practice includes visualization & generation of deity?


All practices of the Purification of Six Lokas from the Longsal Cycle include: Refuge and Bodhichitta, Guru Yoga with Padmasambhava, 6 Syllables of Samantabhadra, Song of the Vajra, and Dedication of Merits.
Especially the one, which is preliminary of the Path of Ati, includes visualization of Vajrasattva for purification.

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 7:59 pm 
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Is Guru Yoga sufficient for protection?


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 8:35 pm 
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trevor wrote:
Is Guru Yoga sufficient for protection?


ChNN Rinpoche says that since practitioners do Guru Yoga, they are protected by the Guardians of the teachings.
Moreover, there are more elaborated practices for protection, if it is necessary under different circumstances.
But the Purification of 6 Lokas is not really for protection! It is for purification of the karmic causes which lead beings to take rebirth in one of the 6 Lokas.

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 8:58 pm 
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Dronma wrote:
trevor wrote:
Is Guru Yoga sufficient for protection?


ChNN Rinpoche says that since practitioners do Guru Yoga, they are protected by the Guardians of the teachings.
Moreover, there are more elaborated practices for protection, if it is necessary under different circumstances.
But the Purification of 6 Lokas is not really for protection! It is for purification of the karmic causes which lead beings to take rebirth in one of the 6 Lokas.

That's not what he meant. He meant "protection" from being reborn in the three lower realms. Rushen in general does that.
I think GY may be sufficient.

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 9:07 pm 
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Dronma wrote:
dakini_boi wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
The method of Dzogchen to protect practitioners from the three lower realms has not one single thing to do with tantric methods, Buddhist or Bon.


Are you referring to the purification of the six lokas? If so, how can what you said be so, when the practice includes visualization & generation of deity?


All practices of the Purification of Six Lokas from the Longsal Cycle include: Refuge and Bodhichitta, Guru Yoga with Padmasambhava, 6 Syllables of Samantabhadra, Song of the Vajra, and Dedication of Merits.
Especially the one, which is preliminary of the Path of Ati, includes visualization of Vajrasattva for purification.


It is sufficient to do Ati Guru Yoga and then engage in purification of six lokas. One can recite SOV or not, depending on how you feel. Then dedicate.

One can also do the Long Longsal Ngondro as you mention above. It is a beautiful practice. There is also another six lokas purification which ChNN will teach this year which is based on physical postures and breathing called "self liberation of the six lokas". It is very interesting.

So there is, like with everything, an essential way, a medium way and a more elborate way, depending on your time and how you feel.

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http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://www.sakyapa.net
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

-- Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 11:10 pm 
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Malcolm wrote:
It is sufficient to do Ati Guru Yoga and then engage in purification of six lokas. One can recite SOV or not, depending on how you feel. Then dedicate.

One can also do the Long Longsal Ngondro as you mention above. It is a beautiful practice. There is also another six lokas purification which ChNN will teach this year which is based on physical postures and breathing called "self liberation of the six lokas". It is very interesting.

So there is, like with everything, an essential way, a medium way and a more elborate way, depending on your time and how you feel.


Hi Malcolm!
I am not sure if you are replying to dakini_boi or me, but I thank you anyway.
I already know all of that you are writing here - in fact I am not so new, nor so young.... ;)
I have received all the transmissions for the different practices of the Purification of Six Lokas and I have been engaged in it for some time. It is one of my favorite practices! :smile:

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 11:46 pm 
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Malcolm wrote:
There is also another six lokas purification which ChNN will teach this year which is based on physical postures and breathing called "self liberation of the six lokas".

You mean the rgyud drug rang grol gyi man ngag? If so, when will he give these teachings? I've only seen that he's going to teach on the ati'i lam gnad sngon 'gro in Greece this year...


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 7:12 pm 
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Bhusuku wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
There is also another six lokas purification which ChNN will teach this year which is based on physical postures and breathing called "self liberation of the six lokas".

You mean the rgyud drug rang grol gyi man ngag? If so, when will he give these teachings? I've only seen that he's going to teach on the ati'i lam gnad sngon 'gro in Greece this year...

I think Malcolm confused it a bit, Rinpoche will be giving what you said and the klong gsal a ti’i dgongs pa sgo ‘byed (Opening of the gate to the state of Ati) which is also a practice of the purification of 6 lokas.

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Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 7:21 pm 
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Pero wrote:
I think Malcolm confused it a bit

Thanks, Pero - this was my assumption too...
Pero wrote:
klong gsal a ti’i dgongs pa sgo ‘byed (Opening of the gate to the state of Ati) which is also a practice of the purification of 6 lokas.

Really? I didn't know that. So, how many different purification of 6 lokas practices are there in the community?


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 7:27 pm 
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Bhusuku wrote:
Pero wrote:
I think Malcolm confused it a bit

Thanks, Pero - this was my assumption too...
Pero wrote:
klong gsal a ti’i dgongs pa sgo ‘byed (Opening of the gate to the state of Ati) which is also a practice of the purification of 6 lokas.

Really? I didn't know that. So, how many different purification of 6 lokas practices are there in the community?

Four. But more if you consider that Rinpoche sometimes gives teachings from various teachers that also contain it (I remember some Changchub Dorje terma and Sangya Lingpa's terma for example, or straight from Dzogchen tantras). It just indicates that it's a very important practice (I think Rinpoche also said something like this). But usually there is not that much difference between them.

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 7:35 pm 
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A thought ...

So many different and elaborate practices for such a thing like Dzogchen ...

Sönam

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By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 8:59 pm 
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Sönam wrote:
A thought ...

So many different and elaborate practices for such a thing like Dzogchen ...

I'm sorry, I don't get your point?

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Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 9:23 pm 
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Pero wrote:
Sönam wrote:
A thought ...

So many different and elaborate practices for such a thing like Dzogchen ...

I'm sorry, I don't get your point?


Dzogchen is direct introduction ... then having no doubt about, then stabilizing it until full realization. To do so you practice Guru Yoga, to help to practice Guru Yoga you can sing AH and visualize a Tibetan AH within a thilé.
But so many practices of this or that, protectors and so on for something so simple as Dzogchen.
As Namkhai Norbu repeated once more wednesday ... when we do some method of transformation it's always Anuyoga.
So you see, there is no point precisely.

Sönam

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By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 9:26 pm 
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Sönam wrote:
Pero wrote:
Sönam wrote:
A thought ...

So many different and elaborate practices for such a thing like Dzogchen ...

I'm sorry, I don't get your point?


Dzogchen is direct introduction ... then having no doubt about, then stabilizing it until full realization. To do so you practice Guru Yoga, to help to practice Guru Yoga you can sing AH and visualize a Tibetan AH within a thilé.
But so many practices of this or that, protectors and so on for something so simple as Dzogchen.
As Namkhai Norbu repeated once more wednesday ... when we do some method of transformation it's always Anuyoga.
So you see, there is no point precisely.

But Rushen is most certainly Atiyoga. :smile:

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Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
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