emptiness seals.

Discuss your personal experience with the Dharma here. How has it enriched your life? What challenges does it present?

emptiness seals.

Postby White Lotus » Thu May 20, 2010 2:57 pm

:namaste: struggling with the ear seal...
seeing the emptiness of ones self, this is the heart seal.
seeing the emptiness of mind, this is the mind seal.
seeing the emptiness of body, this is the body seal.
seeing the emptiness of form, this is the form seal.

but how on earth do you consistently see the emptiness of sound, the ear seal. i live on a bussy road, now i am listening to the traffic, but still find the emptiness of sound elusive.
it would seem that one can know the emptiness of ones own nature without necessarily perceiving the emptiness of all things. sound is a real challenge. i catch glimpses of its emptiness, but it is elusive. one of the patriarchs said the self nature is found in the emptiness of the six bases/consciousnesses, which includes the ear/sound consciousness.

how can there be a complete emptiness sealing if emptiness is not seen in all of the six bases? without seeing emptiness in all the bases there is not confidence of realization.

does anyone have any advice on how to see/hear emtiness in the ear, whilst focused on sound?

best wishes, White Lotus.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
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Re: emptiness seals.

Postby Dae Bi » Thu May 20, 2010 10:39 pm

May I suggest reading the suragama sutra.
David


First there is a mountain then there is no mountain then there is.
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Re: emptiness seals.

Postby Dexing » Fri May 21, 2010 12:50 am

It's just your ear-consciousness translating vibration into sound. If sound were not emptiness and existed outside your ear-consciousness, how come you can't hear the radio playing next to you if you're asleep? You still have ears, right? The eardrum is still vibrated. But ear-consciousness rests, so sound disappears and reappears when ear-consciousness is reawaken. What does that mean?

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Re: emptiness seals.

Postby White Lotus » Sun May 23, 2010 4:49 pm

:namaste: Dae Bi
we are told in the surangama sutra that seeing emptiness of the six bases is like one by one untying knots in the corners of a handkerchief, and ultimately untying the handkerchief itself... emptiness. i still find that i have a serious knot in my handkerchief, i find it difficult to 'perceive' the emptiness of sound, the ear consciousness. i am in the country for the weekend, with my parents and when i get back to noisy london i will resume my focus on the ear consciousness, with a view to seeing/perceiving the emptiness of sound.

Dexing
thats a good logical statement Dexing and no doubt it is true, but i believe that one should be able to perceive the emptiness of sound and not only know about it. please say a small prayer for me to discover the ear seal of emptiness, no sound.

thanks for your kind feed back, may you both be blessed in this coming month with great realization.

best wishes, White Lotus.

the six bases are empty,
unravel the knots in the corners
of the handkerchief and what are you left with?
unravel the handkerchief and what are you left with?
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
White Lotus
 
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Re: emptiness seals.

Postby Dexing » Mon May 24, 2010 4:44 am

White Lotus wrote:Dexing
thats a good logical statement Dexing and no doubt it is true, but i believe that one should be able to perceive the emptiness of sound and not only know about it.


From the Shurangama Sutra's section about the six knots you mentioned:

Shurangama Sutra: Chapter 5 wrote:"Good indeed, Ananda! You wish to recognize your innate ignorance that causes you to turn on the wheel. The origin of the knot of birth and death is simply your six sense-organs and nothing else. You also want to understand unsurpassed Bodhi, so that you can quickly realize bliss, liberation, tranquility, and wonderful permanence. It, too, is your six sense-organs and nothing else."

Although Ananda heard those sounds of Dharma, he did not yet understand them. Bowing his head, he said to the Buddha, "How can what causes me to revolve in the cycle of birth and death and what enables me to gain bliss and wonderful eternity be the six sense-organs in both cases and nothing else?'

The Buddha said to Ananda, "The sense-organs and the objects are the same source. The bonds and their release are not different things. The nature of the consciousness is empty and false, like flowers in space. Ananda, awareness arises because of defiling objects. Phenomena exist because of the sense organs. The phenomena and the perception are both devoid of their own natures. They support each other like intertwining reeds. Therefore, creating knowledge within enlightened perception is fundamental ignorance. To be devoid of perception within enlightened perception is the non-outflow true purity of Nirvana. Why try to put something else in these?"


In the verse spoken by the Buddha to clarify this meaning, he said; "The knots and their release have a common cause. The sages and ordinary people's path are not two."

That means seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching, and thinking.

But ordinary people attach to these and conceptualize what is illusory to be real. Whereas sages just see, just hear, etc..

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Re: emptiness seals.

Postby White Lotus » Mon Jul 19, 2010 4:18 pm

i would no longer say that seeing the emptiness of Mind is the Mind seal... no seeing the mindness of mind is the mind seal. emptiness seal comes before Mind seal.

best wishes, White Lotus.

truth is not to be trusted
except when it is according to taste.
to taste something is to see it.
to not taste is to not know.
taste and see.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
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