Amitabha dies?

gingercatni
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Amitabha dies?

Postby gingercatni » Wed May 16, 2012 11:32 pm

This is an excerpt from the Heart sutra, via a commentary of said sutra, can someone explain this?

A. Amitabha dies?
B. Avalokitesvara becomes Ratnasambhava buddha?

Good sons, after the period of the true dharma of Amitabha
Buddha has vanished, when a bright star [that might be Venus]
appears after midnight, Avalokite$vara Bodhisattva, sitting
cross-legged under the bodhi-tree decorated with the seven
treasures, will attain perfect supreme enlightenment and will be
called the ‘Jewel Sign-Buddha (Ratnaketu Tath2gata)’ who fulfills
the ten epithets and whose land is called ‘the majestic paradise
ornamented with various jewels’ (Joongbo-Jangum).”

:jawdrop:

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LastLegend
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Re: Amitabha dies?

Postby LastLegend » Wed May 16, 2012 11:36 pm

NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)

Bodhidharma [my translation]
―I come to the East to transmit this clear knowing mind without constructing any dharma―

gingercatni
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Re: Amitabha dies?

Postby gingercatni » Wed May 16, 2012 11:41 pm

mmmmm, this sutra has kind of disappointed me......... how are we to know this hasn't already happened? :crying:

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LastLegend
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Re: Amitabha dies?

Postby LastLegend » Wed May 16, 2012 11:44 pm

We gonna have to trust that Buddha will not abandon us before he leaves because of his compassion.
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)

Bodhidharma [my translation]
―I come to the East to transmit this clear knowing mind without constructing any dharma―

gingercatni
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Re: Amitabha dies?

Postby gingercatni » Wed May 16, 2012 11:56 pm


gingercatni
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Re: Amitabha dies?

Postby gingercatni » Thu May 17, 2012 12:00 am

[quote="gingercatni"]This is an excerpt from the Heart sutra, via a commentary of said sutra, can someone explain this?

A. Amitabha dies?
B. Avalokitesvara becomes Ratnasambhava buddha?

Good sons, after the period of the true dharma of Amitabha
Buddha has vanished, when a bright star [that might be Venus]
appears after midnight, Avalokite$vara Bodhisattva, sitting
cross-legged under the bodhi-tree decorated with the seven
treasures, will attain perfect supreme enlightenment and will be
called the ‘Jewel Sign-Buddha (Ratnaketu Tath2gata)’ who fulfills
the ten epithets and whose land is called ‘the majestic paradise
ornamented with various jewels’
(Joongbo-Jangum).”

ties in with his pureland being referred to as "the glorious" though this is a bit of a mind melter, how is this possible? how can Avalokitesvara become Ratnaketu when he already exists? :reading:

Rakz
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Re: Amitabha dies?

Postby Rakz » Thu May 17, 2012 12:02 am

We need some clarification from a scholar.

Astus,Ven. Huifeng, where are you two? :)

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LastLegend
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Re: Amitabha dies?

Postby LastLegend » Thu May 17, 2012 12:08 am

I think more we practice recitation and keeping up with precepts, the more we will come to understand the work of Amitabha. Though I sound like a Christian right now, but some of us or most of us do need the nourishment of Dharma. I am saying by following and practice Pure Land as any other schools, our conditions (including living conditions) will change also. How do we know or experience Pure Land if we don't continue with our practice? There are teachings, but still we have to practice to experiment or experience for ourselves. Also study Buddha teachings also help to strengthen our faith in Amitabha.
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)

Bodhidharma [my translation]
―I come to the East to transmit this clear knowing mind without constructing any dharma―

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Amitabha dies?

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Thu May 17, 2012 1:25 am

Please read the passsage carefully:
"...the period of the true dharma of Amitabha Buddha has vanished..."
Amitabha doesn't vanish.
This refers to the present time, when beings can recite the name of Amitabha and be reborn in Sukhavati.
In the future, beings may not be able to do this,
or the pure land teachings may not be available.
Different Buddhas appear at different times due to the capacities of beings in those times.
.
.
.
Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.

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sinweiy
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Re: Amitabha dies?

Postby sinweiy » Thu May 17, 2012 2:08 am

Yes, just like the future Maitreya Buddha is going to take over Shakyamuni Buddha. and later another Buddha is going to take over Maitreya, and so on and so on.
So Shakayamuni Buddha was a Buddha when delling on earth, about 2500-3000 years ago, attain/'display' enlightenment at the age of 35, and parinirvana at age 80. He spend 45(or 49) years of "rescue"/delievering beings.
Amitabha attain/display Buddhahood as in the Infinity Life sutra stated, 10 mahakalpas ago. So His 'search' for enlightenment and "delievering period" are relatively much longer. In other word, Shakya's 45 human years is correspond to Amida's measureless, limitless asamkhyeyas of mahakalpas, which is very long period but still impermanent.

Moreover, the expressions goes: In the afternoon, we have Amitabha, in the evening, we have Avalokiteshvara, later in the night, comes Mahasthamaprapta. Even more transcending! *stunning*


From the Nirmanakaya POV, Western PL, Amitabha, will also at one time "parinirvana". then Avalokiteshvara will take over or attained Buddhahood, and the Dharma World will not have Dharma Ending Age.
Avalokiteshvara Bodhisattva will be called Pu Guang Gong De Shang Wang Ru Lai 普光功德山王如来(Unconditionate Light & Mountain of Great Merits Tathagata) and His land will be called Zhong Bao Pu Ji Zhuang Yen Tu 众宝普集庄严世界 (Magnific Land of All Treasury & unconditionate Liberation). Later Mahasthamaprapta will take over as Shan Zhu Gong De Bao Wang Ru Lai 善住功德宝王如来 (Kind Dwelling Virtue Treasure King Tathagata). which will become more and more magnific.

it's exciting to see Avalokiteshvara's Pureland! i actually vowed that i will wait to see the newly upgraded Western Avalokiteshvara's Pureland. :)
_/\_
Amituofo!

"Enlightenment is to turn around and see MY own mistake, Other's mistake is also my mistake. Others are right even if they are wrong. i'm wrong even if i'm right. " - Master Chin Kung

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sinweiy
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Re: Amitabha dies?

Postby sinweiy » Thu May 17, 2012 2:28 am

in the Amitabha Sutra we see:-
Moreover, Shariputra, the life of that Buddha and that of his people extends for measureless, limitless Asankhyeya kalpas 无量无边阿僧祇劫. For this reason he is called Amitabha.

measureless, limitless Asankhyeya kalpas are actually number/time units of Buddhism.
1 Asankhyeya = about 1^59
1 measureless = Asankhyeya x Asankhyeya
1 limitless = measureless x measureless.

this are the number/time units in Mahayana in "Exponential" order:-
Asankhyeya 阿僧祇, measureless 无量, limitless 无边, non-edual无等, cannot be counted不可数, cannot be named不可称, cannot be pondered不可思, cannot be measured不可量, cannot be said不可说, cannot be said, cannot be said不可说不可说.

so u see, Asankhyeya, measureless, limitless is only the first three! "cannot be said,cannot be said" is last.
_/\_
Amituofo!

"Enlightenment is to turn around and see MY own mistake, Other's mistake is also my mistake. Others are right even if they are wrong. i'm wrong even if i'm right. " - Master Chin Kung

plwk
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Re: Amitabha dies?

Postby plwk » Thu May 17, 2012 2:46 am


Rakz
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Re: Amitabha dies?

Postby Rakz » Fri May 18, 2012 2:04 am

Seems like a big contradiction from what I've always been taught. I've always been taught that Buddhas never abandon beings and they go on working tirelessly for all eternity since there are infinite beings and that Buddhas achieve a state called apratisthita nirvana aka nonabiding/unrestricted Nirvana.

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sinweiy
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Re: Amitabha dies?

Postby sinweiy » Sat May 19, 2012 3:34 am

i think we can use the trikaya to see this.
all Buddhas have three form of bodies, Three kayas: the dharmakaya, or absolute body; the sambhogakaya, or body of divine enjoyment; and the nirmanakaya, or manifested body. And western Pureland have 4 abodes.
to me the nirmanakaya, or manifested body of Amitabha dwell in the first and/or second abode.
sambhogakaya at third and dharmakaya at four and final abode.
nirmanakaya do have birth and death.
sambhogakaya have birth but no death.
dharmakaya do not have birth non death, never come non go.


as mentioned before, Amitabha is an Emanation body ; the corresponding Enjoyment body is Amitayus, "infinite life"-propitiated for longevity; the Dharma body is Ananta-prabha, "boundless illumination."

hence the "death" is only perceive in the eyes of the "less" enlightened beings in western Pureland.

just like in Lotus sutra, we perceive that Shakyamuni Buddha parinirvana 2500 years ago, but He stated that He's always here helping and liberating sentient beings.

who knows actually, Avalokitesvara, Shakyamuni, Amitabha are equally one in the point of view of the Dharmakaya.
not only them, but sentient beings and Buddhas are one in the point of view of the Dharmakaya.
_/\_
Amituofo!

"Enlightenment is to turn around and see MY own mistake, Other's mistake is also my mistake. Others are right even if they are wrong. i'm wrong even if i'm right. " - Master Chin Kung

Caz
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Re: Amitabha dies?

Postby Caz » Sat May 19, 2012 4:46 am

Buddha's cant die as Buddha is a mind. A gross form body may die because it has a limited function even the supreme manifestation body of Buddha ceased to function yet his mind didn't it still functions to grant us blessings today :)
Abandoning Dharma is, in the final analysis, disparaging the Hinayana because of the Mahayana; favoring the Hinayana on account of the Mahayana; playing off sutra against tantra; playing off the four classes of the tantras against each other; favoring one of the Tibetan schools—the Sakya, Gelug, Kagyu, or Nyingma—and disparaging the rest; and so on. In other words, we abandon Dharma any time we favor our own tenets and disparage the rest.

Liberation in the Palm of your hand~Kyabje Pabongkha Rinpoche.

Rakz
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Re: Amitabha dies?

Postby Rakz » Sat May 19, 2012 5:26 am


Rakz
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Re: Amitabha dies?

Postby Rakz » Sat May 19, 2012 5:28 am


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sinweiy
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Re: Amitabha dies?

Postby sinweiy » Sat May 19, 2012 11:11 am

Last edited by sinweiy on Sat May 19, 2012 11:20 am, edited 3 times in total.
_/\_
Amituofo!

"Enlightenment is to turn around and see MY own mistake, Other's mistake is also my mistake. Others are right even if they are wrong. i'm wrong even if i'm right. " - Master Chin Kung

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sinweiy
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Re: Amitabha dies?

Postby sinweiy » Sat May 19, 2012 11:14 am

_/\_
Amituofo!

"Enlightenment is to turn around and see MY own mistake, Other's mistake is also my mistake. Others are right even if they are wrong. i'm wrong even if i'm right. " - Master Chin Kung

Rakz
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Re: Amitabha dies?

Postby Rakz » Sat May 19, 2012 11:17 am



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