An interesting academic analysis of Diamond Way

Rafael Maurin
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Re: An interesting academic analysis of Diamond Way

Postby Rafael Maurin » Wed May 16, 2012 1:19 pm

[quote="Andrew108"]
There is a huge thread about his organization on 'cult watch' - ok

Andrew, this "cult watch" disiscussion and the thread about DW and Ole is full of unproved bullshit
and the thread was started by a person who is well known for sharing malicious gossip about Ole Nydhal for years.
This person known as "Emma" or sometimes "Laura" is in reality a troubled young man with serious mantal problems...
Just to let you know... :namaste:

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Re: An interesting academic analysis of Diamond Way

Postby DGA » Wed May 16, 2012 1:27 pm


Rafael Maurin
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Re: An interesting academic analysis of Diamond Way

Postby Rafael Maurin » Wed May 16, 2012 1:47 pm


Andrew108
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Re: An interesting academic analysis of Diamond Way

Postby Andrew108 » Wed May 16, 2012 1:56 pm

Seen any other dharma groups with threads over 120 pages on 'cult watch'? Certainly seems that this Emma person has been touched with the 'crazy stick' but there are some genuine criticisms there from ex members.
Anyhow you have this relative samaya thing going on with your teacher and I can understand that even though I don't always appreciate it or think that it's beneficial for you.
The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.

Rafael Maurin
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Re: An interesting academic analysis of Diamond Way

Postby Rafael Maurin » Wed May 16, 2012 2:37 pm


honestdboy
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Re: An interesting academic analysis of Diamond Way

Postby honestdboy » Thu May 17, 2012 1:38 am

Genuine criticisms is fine. GENUINE - not some lunatic gossip...

It`s just that I was a DW member for more than 13 years, I know the people and I know the way the DW centers works with all it`s benefits and dawnfalls.
And when I read such a nonsense,as the "Emma revelations" from "cult watch" rather than some intelligent critic, It just make me sick.

Once, there was thread on E-Sangha where Dave (Lama Dave) gave some intelligent and substantial critic on that matter. But this is unfortunately so rare...
Ussually folks just repeat what they heard or read somewhere, and getting excited...
Life is short, it is much better to do some practice instead of spreading gossip.

Besides, if anyone is so interested how it really is in DW centers, why not visit them?
There are planty of them. And after one or few visits you will know for your self.
Whatever critic one may say about Ole or DW centers - they are very straightforword - you see what you get.
you either like it or not. If you dont like it, no one is forcing you to come.
That`s it.[/quote]

:good: Good point. If you are so fascinated with reading gossip about DW, why not go to a DW center and see what it's really like. You will probably love it or dislike it. If you dislike it, just find another place you like. No problem. The Buddha was fully enlightened and could teach many many different kinds of students. Today's teachers usually appeal to certain types of people--at least that's how it seems to me when I visit various centers. I like the joyful feeling at DW centers compared with some other centers where the people look spaced out or like they are in Sunday school--that doesn't appeal to me at all. To each his own.

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Re: An interesting academic analysis of Diamond Way

Postby practitioner » Thu May 17, 2012 1:53 am

One should do nothing other than benefit sentient beings either directly or indirectly - Shantideva

honestdboy
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Re: An interesting academic analysis of Diamond Way

Postby honestdboy » Thu May 17, 2012 5:42 am

There's way too much hate here at Dharma Wheel. I'm outta here after posting a few words of wisdom from Trungpa Rinpoche:

"Let go of choosing between friend and enemy.
Immediately drop thoughts that follow from passion or aggression.
Within the expanse of simply being, without judgment,
The sun of devotion spontaneously dawns."

-From "Spring's Flower: A Spontaneous Song of Experience" composed by Vidyadhara Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche

:namaste:

Simon E.
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Re: An interesting academic analysis of Diamond Way

Postby Simon E. » Thu May 17, 2012 8:02 am

" My heart's in the Highlands
my heart is not here.
My heart's in the Highlands
chasing the deer."

Robert V.C. Burns.

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Re: An interesting academic analysis of Diamond Way

Postby Grigoris » Thu May 17, 2012 8:41 am

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Simon E.
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Re: An interesting academic analysis of Diamond Way

Postby Simon E. » Thu May 17, 2012 8:50 am

I note your view but do not accept it. Consensual sexual relationships are only truly consensual between equals.
" My heart's in the Highlands
my heart is not here.
My heart's in the Highlands
chasing the deer."

Robert V.C. Burns.

Rafael Maurin
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Re: An interesting academic analysis of Diamond Way

Postby Rafael Maurin » Thu May 17, 2012 12:28 pm


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Re: An interesting academic analysis of Diamond Way

Postby justsit » Thu May 17, 2012 12:47 pm


Rafael Maurin
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Re: An interesting academic analysis of Diamond Way

Postby Rafael Maurin » Thu May 17, 2012 1:26 pm


Rafael Maurin
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Re: An interesting academic analysis of Diamond Way

Postby Rafael Maurin » Thu May 17, 2012 1:33 pm

One more thing. It just amaze me that similar topics are just on every Buddhist forum. Sometimes with the same participants...Folks spend hours of their lives debating, about just how bad ON or whoever or whatever is... Well, It seem that we all have so much spare time, that we could use to practice, and yet almost everyone complains of having not enough time to practice dharma...Amazing...

Here is something from non existing E-Sangha http://web.archive.org/web/200805220710 ... opic=24850 For those really hungry about ON discussion, you can read and read and read...

Specially I wouldlike to recommend post`s by Dave. It is a sort of serious and intelligent criticism which is not based on like/dislike attitude...

Good day to you all :anjali:

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Re: An interesting academic analysis of Diamond Way

Postby practitioner » Fri May 18, 2012 2:58 am

One should do nothing other than benefit sentient beings either directly or indirectly - Shantideva

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Grigoris
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Re: An interesting academic analysis of Diamond Way

Postby Grigoris » Fri May 18, 2012 9:19 am

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Grigoris
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Re: An interesting academic analysis of Diamond Way

Postby Grigoris » Fri May 18, 2012 9:20 am

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Rafael Maurin
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Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:40 pm

Re: An interesting academic analysis of Diamond Way

Postby Rafael Maurin » Fri May 18, 2012 11:39 am

No one is really going to argue that the title of "Lama" in the Kagyu tradition is reserved for practitioners (lay or monastic) who complete a traditional 3 year retreat. Correct?? So the fact that he has given himself the title "Lama" without such credentials is troubling is it not?
Also, the fact that even his supporters here call DW "cultish" and his that his followers are "blindly in love with him". A defender of him says "knowledge about the Dharma is very limited amond DW members. That is all true."
[quote][/quote]

Here you can find some clarification about his title "Lama"http://www.lama-ole-nydahl.org/documents/ole_shamar_letter.pdf
And here some more http://www.lama-ole-nydahl.org/documents.htm

When I said about "cultish" atmosphere, I should add that it is not that everyone in DW centers beheve like that, but that there are some people who display this cultish attitude.
On the other hand - Ole is their Guru, so...When I`m thinking or talking about my Gurus it is also possible that someone will think me "blindly in love with cultish approach" :thinking:

And a`propos being Ole`s defender - I dont think there is anything to defend really. Ole is a buddhist teacher, - his work of spreading the Dharma is immense. His style is not a traditionale one, but he is teaching Dharma, dont forget that. And he benefits people. Many people. As I said before if you dont like his style no one is forcing you to follow him.
Someone may say that his presentation of Dharma is not 100% correct at times, and I would agree. But, there is a diffrence between not 100% correct and wrong... There are thousands of people - literally, who would never turn to Dharma if presented in a traditionale way. But now, they are Ole`s students, they are doing Ngondro, practicing and reading about the Dharma, rather than doing something else...Is that not benefitial?

Also, I would like to share a story with you.
My friend, who is a Nyingmapa and Dzogchen practicioner, told me that he attended a Dharma course some years ago with the late H.H Chhimed Rigdzin Rinpoche - great dzogchen master and Terton. There were some people there criticizing Ole Nydhal, spreding gossip and so on. At some point, Chhimed Rigdzin Rinpoche said that they should stop doing it at once, or he will leave and never return to teach them...He said that Ole is a great Bodhisattva who is extremly skillful in spreading the dharma, even to people that have very little connection with the path...

Good day to you all :anjali:

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Re: An interesting academic analysis of Diamond Way

Postby emaho » Fri May 18, 2012 12:30 pm

I'm a student of Chhimed Rigdzin Rinpoche and I've heard a recording of one of his teachings where he said that Ole Nydahl is a good lama in the sense that he is attracting many people to the dharma. He also said that by this he would not mean that all of Ole's teachings were correct. He concluded by saying that clarifying Ole's teachings would then be the responsibility of the 17th Karmapa and therefore he himself would not comment on Ole's teachings. (That was somewhen in the nineties.)

I have also heard some other remarks about Ole Nydahl Chhimed Rigdzin Rinpoche made and I very much doubt that he ever said that Ole was a great bodhisattva.
"Do yourself a favor and get out of Samsara!" Dudjom Rinpoche, Counsels From My Heart


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