Dzogchen and Buddhism

Andrew108
Posts: 1502
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby Andrew108 » Tue May 15, 2012 5:56 am

I don't know. How many people practicing Dzogchen have realized it? You can study a lot or 'get' Dzogchen and still there seems no real difference in terms of reducing Kleshas and so on. On Dzogchen retreats I have met some lovely and beautiful people and all of them have the view that they are following the highest path and aren't they lucky. This sounds a little bitter - but what I mean is there can be a certain arrogance and 'triumphalism' in someone who clings to the Dzogchen view as being superior.And this obviously is an obscuration.
It's pretty much what Thrangu Rinpoche said when he talked about how Direct Introduction works - you get a glimpse but if that glimpse doesn't manifest you can get arrogant and waste as much time as if you just relied on intellectual analysis.
So if Dzogchen is the highest and most direct path - show me the money. Those wisdom qualities should be shining through. I'm really glad that ChNN is transmitting Dzogchen and I see it is another expression of Buddhadharma but by itself it's not sufficient. It should be part of the larger discourse of Buddhadharma- it works best that way. You know when I was in Merigar there was a lot of arguing about whose turn it was to get onto the Vajra Dance mandala. That seemed kind of indicative. I'm not saying that is in anyway due to a lack of something in the dharma or how it's presented just that people think they 'get' it but clearly have not. I include myself in that category.
From my own side I see the benefits of Dzogchen as shining a light on the so-called 'lower paths' - actually making the lower paths much more beautiful. Dzogchen is a key that opens the door to a lot of other dharma - but it's a key. By itself it's not working and makes people arrogant - we all think may be we are the 'one' who out of millions will get it. We cling to the teacher. We look for differences rather than similarities. We disparage other dharma paths. We don't question our conditioning. We don't have the freedom we wanted.
The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.

User avatar
Lhug-Pa
Posts: 1429
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:58 pm

Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby Lhug-Pa » Tue May 15, 2012 5:57 am

Last edited by Lhug-Pa on Tue May 15, 2012 6:36 am, edited 5 times in total.

mujushinkyo
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 5:58 am

Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby mujushinkyo » Tue May 15, 2012 6:00 am

Cool discussion, What's the problem? Atiyoga is Sahaja. It's the Natural State. Everybody wakes up to This. Doesn't have anything to do with Buddhism as such.

ram peswani
Posts: 245
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:53 am

Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby ram peswani » Tue May 15, 2012 6:38 am


Josef
Posts: 1626
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:44 pm

Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby Josef » Tue May 15, 2012 6:52 am


ram peswani
Posts: 245
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:53 am

Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby ram peswani » Tue May 15, 2012 7:11 am


Andrew108
Posts: 1502
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby Andrew108 » Tue May 15, 2012 7:22 am

Ultimate aim of all Buddhadharma is to overcome the aggressive dualism that we are involved in. That's it. If a form of this Buddhadharma promotes a dualistic view then it's not genuine - it's actually not Buddhadharma.
The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.

muni
Posts: 4249
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby muni » Tue May 15, 2012 7:23 am

Buddhism is the path to our nature. Dzogchen is our nature.

I know not much but this: Only "not dzogchen" can explain "to another". Since another is idea, an idea which hops in chasing behind ones own thoughts. In these the other-idea arises. So me thought is telling the idea in own grasped thought how to do.

Therefore Dzogchen is master student. The master is not chasing behind his thoughts in which we arise. (look what Garab Dorje said about) He is talking in ones own compassionate (wisdom aspect) nature, there are no others outside of that. There are no others and no me (dualistic fixation) in essence. Therefore an awaken master-student is Dzogchen tradition. The only way for Dzogchen nondual practice.

Debate (solidnesses) in "Dzogchen practice" is delusion. What happens when we watch thoughts and see how smoothly they dissolve? then the door between you and me dissolves like smoke never been.
Just two cents...

The only advice is => a master. Rest is keeping ourselves and everyone in dual state.

muni
Posts: 4249
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby muni » Tue May 15, 2012 7:53 am


ram peswani
Posts: 245
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:53 am

Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby ram peswani » Tue May 15, 2012 8:25 am


User avatar
heart
Posts: 3950
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm

Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby heart » Tue May 15, 2012 8:47 am

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

Blue Garuda
Posts: 1967
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:23 pm

Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby Blue Garuda » Tue May 15, 2012 8:53 am

My thanks to those who have explained and elaborated on the nature of Dzogchen here, with mindfulness, gentleness and clarity. I have asked a lot of questions and learned a great deal. :anjali:
Last edited by Blue Garuda on Tue May 15, 2012 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
Left

Mariusz
Posts: 708
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:08 pm

Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby Mariusz » Tue May 15, 2012 9:06 am


Mariusz
Posts: 708
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:08 pm

Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby Mariusz » Tue May 15, 2012 10:20 am

...Concerning this "too little practice" I was once during Namkhai Norbu's open for all teachings on Dzogchen in Poland, when He "performed" for us the introduction into Rigpa, whatever if we were buddhists or not, because it was open for all in a gymnastics hall of a public school :smile: (I don't remember if for buying the ticket you should marked you are a buddhist). More common is first ngondro, so you have to be buddhist, and after it the other elements of the full cycle of Dzogchen, such initiations into the full cycle of Nyinthig, then retreats of khorde rushen, then further instructions on trekcho and retreats....

User avatar
Kilaya.
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:51 pm
Location: Budapest, Hungary

Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby Kilaya. » Tue May 15, 2012 11:12 am

Look at those charlatans, madly engaged
in fervent argument.
- Milarepa

udawa
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:10 pm

Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby udawa » Tue May 15, 2012 11:15 am

Edwards: You are a philosopher. Dr Johnson: I have tried too in my time to be a philosopher; but, I don't know how, cheerfulness was always breaking in.

Pema Rigdzin
Posts: 1037
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:19 am
Location: Southern Oregon

Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Tue May 15, 2012 11:34 am


User avatar
Dechen Norbu
Posts: 2869
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:50 pm

Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby Dechen Norbu » Tue May 15, 2012 2:56 pm


User avatar
Dechen Norbu
Posts: 2869
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:50 pm

Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby Dechen Norbu » Tue May 15, 2012 3:01 pm


User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism

Postby Malcolm » Tue May 15, 2012 3:12 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa


Return to “Dzogchen”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests