Shikantaza

Frank
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Shikantaza

Postby Frank » Mon May 14, 2012 6:53 pm

Can someone please explain Shikantaza meditation to me? I think i understand it and would like to read up on it but I would really appreciate some information from people I can actually talk to as opposed to just reading a book on it.

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Astus
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Re: Shikantaza

Postby Astus » Mon May 14, 2012 8:54 pm

Quite simple. Don't grasp whatever occurs in the mind - the complete field of experience - but just let it come and let it go. Then you add to this all the formalities of a Soto Zen temple, if you want to.
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



Frank
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Re: Shikantaza

Postby Frank » Mon May 14, 2012 9:56 pm


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Astus
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Re: Shikantaza

Postby Astus » Mon May 14, 2012 10:21 pm

I don't know what mixed teachings of Dogen you refer to. Without thoughts how can you make an analysis?
Jhana is a Pali term used to denote some level of absorption, vipassana can have several meanings. Please specify.
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



ElephantsYeah
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Re: Shikantaza

Postby ElephantsYeah » Mon May 14, 2012 11:58 pm

Of course it is really important to get personal instruction on this from a teacher you respect. Until then, I would recommend the book "Opening the Hand of Thought" by Kosho Uchiyama, a master in Dogen's lineage.

You might also check out these instructions from Shohaku Okumura, a student of Uchiyama, which can be found here:

As to the analysis/jhana/dhyana/vipassana question. The "shi" and "kan" of "shikantaza" are not the "shi" and "kan" of shamatha-vipashyana, such as you might find in Zhiyi; this is one of Dogen's word-plays. Not that Zhiyi is not excellent and useful, because he most certainly is, but just to recognize that Dogen makes a point about this, which can be a source of confusion. In Dogen's Zen, you don't bother distinguishing between abiding and analysis. At least in my limited understanding...

I hope this is of some help...

Frank
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Re: Shikantaza

Postby Frank » Tue May 15, 2012 12:57 am

Last edited by Frank on Tue May 15, 2012 1:12 am, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: Shikantaza

Postby Frank » Tue May 15, 2012 12:59 am


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Astus
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Re: Shikantaza

Postby Astus » Tue May 15, 2012 10:35 am

Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



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mindyourmind
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Re: Shikantaza

Postby mindyourmind » Tue May 15, 2012 11:04 am

Dualism is the real root of our suffering and all of our conflicts.

Namkhai Norbu

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Astus
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Re: Shikantaza

Postby Astus » Tue May 15, 2012 3:44 pm

by Daido Roshi.

"Abide in neither thinking nor not thinking. Thinking is linear and sequential, a separation from the reality that is the subject of thought, and thus is an abstraction rather than the reality itself. Not thinking is suppressive. It cuts away thoughts the moment they arise, making the mind into a great impenetrable mountain—dead, unresponsive. Non-thinking has no such edges. It is the boundless mind of samadhi that neither holds on to, nor lets go of, thoughts. It is the manifestation of the buddha mind in which the dualism of self and other, thinking and not thinking, dissolve. This is the dharma of thusness that is the right thought of all the buddhas in the ten directions."
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



Frank
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun May 13, 2012 7:21 am

Re: Shikantaza

Postby Frank » Tue May 15, 2012 4:44 pm

Last edited by Frank on Tue May 15, 2012 4:56 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Frank
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Re: Shikantaza

Postby Frank » Tue May 15, 2012 4:46 pm


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Astus
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Re: Shikantaza

Postby Astus » Tue May 15, 2012 5:11 pm

Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



Frank
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun May 13, 2012 7:21 am

Re: Shikantaza

Postby Frank » Tue May 15, 2012 7:03 pm


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Astus
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Re: Shikantaza

Postby Astus » Tue May 15, 2012 8:28 pm

Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



Frank
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun May 13, 2012 7:21 am

Re: Shikantaza

Postby Frank » Tue May 15, 2012 10:13 pm

Astus, thanks much. Sounds like I need to do some reading. Thank you for all your patience and helpfulness. :anjali:

Matylda
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Re: Shikantaza

Postby Matylda » Tue May 15, 2012 11:50 pm


Frank
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Re: Shikantaza

Postby Frank » Wed May 16, 2012 1:53 am


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Re: Shikantaza

Postby Matylda » Wed May 16, 2012 7:49 am


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Astus
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Re: Shikantaza

Postby Astus » Wed May 16, 2012 10:10 am

Matylda,

Where is shikantaza taught the way you talk about? Is it a specific teacher, temple or lineage of Soto Zen? Or more of a philosophical branch?
There were clear instructions quoted and referred to here, and there are many more available. For instance, from the Soto church's official website:

"Do not concentrate on any particular object or control your thought. When you maintain a proper posture and your breathing settles down, your mind will naturally become tranquil.
When various thoughts arise in your mind, do not become caught up by them or struggle with them; neither pursue nor try to escape from them. Just leave thoughts alone, allowing them to come up and go away freely. The essential thing in doing zazen is to awaken (kakusoku) from distraction and dullness, and return to the right posture moment by moment."


Before and after this it gives all the ritual and physical acts one should be aware of, pictures included. What else could be there to it? Gives the same insturctions one finds everywhere. That's why I ask where all those other extras you mention come from.
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.




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