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 Post subject: Re: Is Buddhism elitist?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:01 am 
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Lhug-Pa wrote:
It's also funny you mention that considering how the early 19th century English Mason Godfrey Higgins (quoted in my signature) referred to the very ancient 'Gymnosophists' as Æthiopian, and also as followers of the Buddha. It's very interesting, being that the Gymnosophists, Sadhus, Ngakpas, and Rastafarians all have dreadlocks.
Yes, well... except that gymno (naked) sophists (philosophers) refers to the fact that their asceticism is so extreme as to take them to the point of forsaking clothing. So Higgins is clearly refering to sadhus. His characterisation of them as Ethiopians may be due to the fact that his white colonial upbringing has lead him to label anything darker than a lily-white Englander as an "Ethiopian". ie he had personal contact with Ethiopians and thus used them as a point of reference. Like later it became fashionable to label anybody darker than an Englander and lighter than a central-southern African an "Indian".
Colonial mentality!

:namaste:
PS Fela Kuti was Nigerian. I recommend you track down his biography, fascinating!

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 Post subject: Re: Is Buddhism elitist?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:56 pm 
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gregkavarnos wrote:
Yes, well... except that gymno (naked) sophists (philosophers) refers to the fact that their asceticism is so extreme as to take them to the point of forsaking clothing. So Higgins is clearly refering to sadhus.


Yes, Sadhus, or also 'Sky-Clad' Jains, or perhaps even some schools of Buddhists. The Gymnosophists could also refer to some Sramana style schools, pre-Shakyamuni Buddhists, or even very ancient (Dravidian or even Khemetian/Nubian) Tantrikas who lived in parts of Africa, India, and other 'near-East' places. This is a deep topic that would require a lot of time and further research to delve into right now though.


gregkavarnos wrote:
Colonial mentality!


I'd say the following statement is quite the opposite of the colonial mentality:


Druid and Master Mason Godfrey Higgins wrote:
1. In taking a survey of the human inhabitants of the world, we find two classes, distinguished from each other by a clear and definite line of demarkation, the black and white colours of their skins. This distinguishing mark we discover to have existed in ages the most remote. If we suppose them all to have descended from one pair, the question arises, Was that pair black or white? If I were at present to say that I thought them black, I should be accused of a fondness for paradox, and I should find as few persons to agree with me, as the African negroes do when they tell Europeans that the Devil is white. (And yet no one, except a West-India planter, will deny that the poor Africans have reason on their side.) However, I say not that they were black, but I shall, in the course of this work, produce a number of extraordinary facts, which will be quite sufficient to prove, that a black race, in very early times, had more influence over the affairs of the world than has been lately suspected; and I think I shall shew, by some very striking circumstances yet existing, that the effects of this influence have not entirely passed away.


gregkavarnos wrote:
His characterisation of them as Ethiopians may be due to the fact that his white colonial upbringing has lead him to label anything darker than a lily-white Englander as an "Ethiopian". ie he had personal contact with Ethiopians and thus used them as a point of reference. Like later it became fashionable to label anybody darker than an Englander and lighter than a central-southern African an "Indian".


Nah, he wasn't that naive (and even though I don't think he used the terms, I think that Godfrey Higgins was aware of the difference between Merotic and Nilotic Black people) cf:



BOOK I - CHAPTER IV

TWO ANCIENT ETHIOPIAS—GREAT BLACK NATION IN ASIA—THE BUDDHA OF INDIA A NEGRO—THE ARABIANS WERE CUSHITES—SHEPHERD KINGS—HINDOOS AND EGYPTIANS SIMILAR—SYRIA PEOPLED FROM INDIA


gregkavarnos wrote:

:namaste:
PS Fela Kuti was Nigerian. I recommend you track down his biography, fascinating!


I'm somewhat familiar with the music and history of Fela Kuti. Just glanced at his biography again per your suggestion too.

Black President? Considering the brutal Zionist-controlled U.S. foreign policy—which is responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths of dark-skin or melanated people all around the world—which Barack Obama doesn't seem to be opposing very much if at all, Barack Obama should be listening to more Fela Kuti.

Speaking of the warmonger Barmitt Obomney, it's "Election Day"; so I'm off to—even though he isn't even a write-in at this point—go write in Ron Paul on the ballots, considering that he was perhaps the ONLY anti-war/pro-peace presidential candidate this election (I say "perhaps", because John Huntsman ran and I think that he might have been anti-war/pro-peace as well). Now even though I think that the said elections are rigged anyway, it will only take a minute to go write in Ron Paul, so that I can tell people that I wrote him in if they ask "Did you vote?" or if they say "You don't have a say if you don't vote", etc. etc. etc.





:anjali:


Last edited by Sherab Dorje on Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Edited out off topic quote and added link instead.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Buddhism elitist?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:11 pm 
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Druid and Master Mason Godfrey Higgins wrote:
1. In taking a survey of the human inhabitants of the world, we find two classes, distinguished from each other by a clear and definite line of demarkation, the black and white colours of their skins.
Yes, well, what can one say...? Black, white, "melenated" :shrug: , all useless and irrelevant categories really.
:namaste:

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 Post subject: Re: Is Buddhism elitist?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:49 pm 
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gregkavarnos wrote:
Yes, well, what can one say...? Black, white, "melenated" :shrug: , all useless and irrelevant categories really.
:namaste:


Well, there are many melanated people in this world who are still affected by the greed, conquest, imperialism, colonialism, etc. of non-melanated people. Look for example at what Monsanto is trying to do to their food-supplies (of course non-melanated people are affected by this too), what the Caucasus-asian Ashkenazi/Khazars are doing to the Palestinians, what the U.S. government is doing to other non-European countries with their bombing-drones, what the Marxist-influenced (Marx was a Caucas-asian Zionist Ashkenazi) Chinese are doing to Tibet, etc. etc. etc. (I've nothing against Socialism, it's just that Marxism is a negative model because it is so materialist).

So the point that Godfrey Higgins is making, is that melanated people once had grand civilizations in ancient times, and that they weren't all illiterate and didn't all live in mud huts, etc. In fact his writings show that we owe just about everything—or at least much of what—we have to them in terms of civilization (it's easier for people to justify colonialism/imperialism to themselves when the ones who are getting invaded are seen as "sub-human", "savage", "uncivilized", "superstitious", etc.).

Anyway, this thread started to go off-topic when Tomamundsen and I started discussing the particulars of the Longchenpa quote; so if anyone wants to start a new thread, it would be a good idea to reference the quotes posted in this post (Upasika Blavatsky, Manly P. Hall, etc.) as well (or even continue this conversation in this thread.

(P.S. the quote from Upasika Blavatsky from Isis Unveiled in the here(above)-linked-thread could have something to do with the possible influence of melanin on the pineal gland that non-melanated people lack; and, regarding that: Lhug-Pa: "I'm hoping that one doesn't have to literally fit the above criteria to be a Dzogchenpa." Tomamundsen: "Doesn't seem like it. Just seems that if you don't fit the criteria there might be more difficulty.").

:anjali:


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 Post subject: Re: Upasika Blavatsky
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:34 pm 
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Will wrote:
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Jikan: Blavatsky's reliance on grand narratives of great races...


Not true, regarding "reliance".

Only those nowadays who are fixated on 'race', project onto Blavatsky their hobby. Spiritual evolution of groups was only a small part of Theosophy.


Race is the basis of her interpretation of history. It's not marginal to her thought, it's the logic behind her thought and its presentation.

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 Post subject: Re: Upasika Blavatsky
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:05 pm 
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Jikan, I think that the influence of race on H.P. Blavatsky's writings is actually somewhere between what Will posted here and what you've posted here.

And as we can see here, H.P. Blavatsky—and one of the greatest Theosophists of all time Manly P. Hall 33º—was obviously very against the European's of her time's racial prejudices.


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