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Is dependent arising the basis for anatta? - Dhamma Wheel

Is dependent arising the basis for anatta?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Spiny O'Norman
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Is dependent arising the basis for anatta?

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Tue May 26, 2009 9:15 am

I am thinking here of the general form of dependent origination, "This being, that becomes..." rather than the specific 12 links formulation. It seems to me that this is the basis for anatta, in other words phenomena lack enduring independent essence ( selfhood ) because of the perpetual process of arising and ceasing based on cause and condition ( d.o. )
Am I barking up the wrong tree by making this connection?

Rick

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retrofuturist
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Re: Is dependent arising the basis for anatta?

Postby retrofuturist » Tue May 26, 2009 10:48 am

Greetings Rick,

Yes, you could say both teachings are based on emptiness (sunnata).

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Spiny O'Norman
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Re: Is dependent arising the basis for anatta?

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Wed May 27, 2009 8:07 am


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Re: Is dependent arising the basis for anatta?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed May 27, 2009 8:35 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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cooran
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Re: Is dependent arising the basis for anatta?

Postby cooran » Wed May 27, 2009 8:43 am

Hello Rick,

DN 15 Maha-nidana Sutta The Great Causes Discourse
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

I would strongly encourage you to purchase The Great Discourse on Causation The Mahanidana Sutta and its Commentaries ~ translated from the Pali by Bhikkhu Bodhi. This is possibly the most profound and among the most important discourses spoken by the Buddha.
His book is one hundred and forty pages of explanation:
http://www.bps.lk/translationsfrompali.asp

metta
Chris
Last edited by cooran on Wed May 27, 2009 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
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Re: Is dependent arising the basis for anatta?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed May 27, 2009 8:47 am

Greetings,

Actually, Chris' recommendation just reminded me of a sutta specifically addressing anatta and dependent origination.

Anattalakkhana Sutta
http://www.aimwell.org/Books/Suttas/Ana ... khana.html

in fact, it even addresses the 3 characteristics, as per your other recent topic.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Spiny O'Norman
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Re: Is dependent arising the basis for anatta?

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Thu May 28, 2009 8:14 am


rowyourboat
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Re: Is dependent arising the basis for anatta?

Postby rowyourboat » Thu May 28, 2009 1:56 pm

yes, that is correct

dependant origination is possible because things are impermanant
otherwise things would just last and nothing new would arise!

dependant origination is also about the relationship between things- ie one gives rise to the other

things are impermanant because they are dependantly originated- when the cause fades so does the effect

so dependant origination and anicca are very closely linked

since there is anicca- things arising and passing away very quickly -there is nothing to be seen as self or a controller
equally since everything is happening via cause and effect there is no one doing anything- it is just automatic-like a string of dominoes-the illusion of movement where the falling takes places is what we call the self because we cannot see it closely enough. If we focus closely we will see the constituent components giving rise to subsequent components (ie it takes samadhi -a quiet calm concentrated mind to give rise to panna/insight).

in the progress of insight after seeing mind and matter (nama rupa) one sees causality happening in this manner- this then leads to understanding of the three characteristics of anicca, dukkha and anatta.

with metta
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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Re: Is dependent arising the basis for anatta?

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Fri May 29, 2009 8:57 am


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Re: Is dependent arising the basis for anatta?

Postby Rhino » Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:03 pm

With best wishes

Only in a vertical view, straight down into the abyss of his own personal existence, is a man capable of apprehending the perilous insecurity of his situation; and only a man who does apprehend this is prepared to listen to the Buddha's Teaching.

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Re: Is dependent arising the basis for anatta?

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:30 am


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Re: Is dependent arising the basis for anatta?

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:42 am


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Re: Is dependent arising the basis for anatta?

Postby Zhalmed Pawo » Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:26 pm

According to Je Tsongkhapa (founder of the Tibetan Geluk School), dependent origination and selflessness (or emptiness) of phenomena are the same. This happens to conform with Theravada sources. (Not all, but most, as the Theravada is a huge and varieted School.)

For instance, in one Pali Sutta, after the Buddha has explained the dependant origination, Ananda says that it was a nice and easy teaching, easy for everyone to understand, to which Buddha comments that "do not say so, Ananda, since only because of not understanding dependant origination, living beings are trapped in samsara, so this dependent origination is not easy to see at all". Usually 'the escape' is presented as selflessness or emptiness, but here the Buddha says that it is dependent origination.

They are same same.

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Ben
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Re: Is dependent arising the basis for anatta?

Postby Ben » Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:29 pm

Dear ZP and all

Please take the time to cite the sources that you rely upon in your discussions.
Many thanks

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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cooran
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Re: Is dependent arising the basis for anatta?

Postby cooran » Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:24 pm

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---


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