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Heaven and Hell - Dhamma Wheel

Heaven and Hell

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Wind
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Heaven and Hell

Postby Wind » Wed May 05, 2010 4:17 am

Does one spontaneously arise in Heaven or Hell? If so, what form does one take? Would their memories be the same as that when they are human? Or is it much like the human realm where one is born into it and all memories is likely forgotten?

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retrofuturist
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Re: Heaven and Hell

Postby retrofuturist » Wed May 05, 2010 4:21 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Wind
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Re: Heaven and Hell

Postby Wind » Wed May 05, 2010 4:37 am

Hi Retro

Although that image is slightly disturbing lol, are you implying they are likely same as human form? I haven't come across any suttas that goes into details the arising into heaven or hell. I wonder if the Abhidhamma cover this particular aspect or the commentaries?

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Ben
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Re: Heaven and Hell

Postby Ben » Wed May 05, 2010 4:39 am

Hi Wind

I think Retro is saying that he thinks heaven and hell are metaphors, and don't actually exist.
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Wind
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Re: Heaven and Hell

Postby Wind » Wed May 05, 2010 5:07 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Heaven and Hell

Postby retrofuturist » Wed May 05, 2010 5:14 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

Kenshou
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Re: Heaven and Hell

Postby Kenshou » Wed May 05, 2010 5:15 am

Why are "places of existence" necessary, and what exactly does that entail? The experience is what matters, I think this is what Retro was saying.

The way I see it, as far as I know, the stratified construction of the cosmos is an Indian idea that predates Buddhism, and I think it's likely that the Buddha would have explained his teachings in a context that his audience would be familiar with and would understand.

But there's no need to imagine these things as discreetly separate dimensions of existence. If a particular birth is characterized by very unpleasant circumstances, why not call it a birth into a "hell realm"?

Shonin
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Re: Heaven and Hell

Postby Shonin » Wed May 05, 2010 11:30 am

I agree with Retro. The Buddha taught primarily in terms of what can be experienced not in terms of abstract ontological speculation.

PeterB
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Re: Heaven and Hell

Postby PeterB » Wed May 05, 2010 12:17 pm


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Zom
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Re: Heaven and Hell

Postby Zom » Wed May 05, 2010 2:46 pm


Kenshou
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Re: Heaven and Hell

Postby Kenshou » Wed May 05, 2010 5:52 pm


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BubbaBuddhist
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Re: Heaven and Hell

Postby BubbaBuddhist » Wed May 05, 2010 9:16 pm

"In a world of monotonous horror there could be no salvation in wild dreaming." — Richard Matheson (I Am Legend)

J
Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?

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Pannapetar
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Re: Heaven and Hell

Postby Pannapetar » Thu May 06, 2010 6:12 am



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