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Meaning of “Pabhassaramidam cittam bhikkhave”? - Dhamma Wheel

Meaning of “Pabhassaramidam cittam bhikkhave”?

Explore the ancient language of the Tipitaka and Theravāda commentaries

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starter
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Meaning of “Pabhassaramidam cittam bhikkhave”?

Postby starter » Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:40 pm

Hello Friends,

Many thanks for your previous kind help. I read the following in "The Path to the Arahantship":

"When referring to the original citta, the Buddha stated: “Pabhassaramidam cittam bhikkhave.” Pabhassara means radiant, it does not mean pure."

I'd like to know the exact meaning of “Pabhassaramidam cittam bhikkhave”.

I also would like to know if the Buddha had used the word "pure" in pali to describe the "luminous mind" or the “luminous all around” consciousness.

Metta to all,

Starter

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adeh
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Re: Meaning of “Pabhassaramidam cittam bhikkhave”?

Postby adeh » Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:56 pm

Bhikkhu Ñananananda has translated it as: ''This mind, monks, is luminous, but it is defiled by extraneous defilements.'' He goes on to say that this is in reference to the non-manifestative, infinite and all lustrous consciousness of the Arahant. I don't think that the Buddha ever refered to citta as 'original'.
Nibbana, The Mind Stilled. Ven. Bhikkhu Ñanananda, page 191.

lojong1
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Re: Meaning of “Pabhassaramidam cittam bhikkhave”?

Postby lojong1 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:16 am

"Pabhassaramidam cittam bhikkhave"
Bhikkhave = Bhikkhus [I'm talking to you now.]
Cittam and pabhassaram show gender and case.
idam = this

lojong1
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Re: Meaning of “Pabhassaramidam cittam bhikkhave”?

Postby lojong1 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:25 am

If seeing the defilements as defiling luminosity turns your crank, great, as long as defilements are seen as defilements and mind is freed from them, so there is kusala citta-bhavana.
Luminous, pure, mirroring, clean, watery, sky-like, whichever, follow the recipe and you'll get a piece.


Ven. Walpola Rahula:
"It is instructive to note here that there is a striking agreement between this concept of citta in the two suttas above and the Mahayana doctrine of the tathagatagarbha. Citta is qualified by the Pali word pabhassara. The Lankavatara-sutra (a Mahayana sutra of a later date than the Anguttara-nikaya and which has greatly influenced Zen), qualifies tathagatagarbha by the corresponding Sanskrit word prabhasvara (luminous). It says that the tathatagarbha is prakrtiprabhasvara (luminous by nature) and prakrtiparisuddha (pure by nature), but it appears impure 'because it is defiled by adventitious defilements' (agantuklesopaklistataya). (Cf. the Pali expression in the two suttas above: agantukehi upakkilesehi upakkilittham.) In the Lankavatara-sutra the term tathagatagarbha is used as a synonym for alayavijnana. Now alayavijnana is another term for citta. So the Lankavatara-sutra statement that the tathatagarbha is 'luminous by nature' and 'pure by nature' and that it is 'defiled by adventitious defilements' is tantamount to saying that citta (mind) is 'luminous by nature' and 'pure by nature', and that it is 'defiled by adventitious defilements'. It is obvious then that the concept of the 'Ox-herding Pictures' is derived from Pali and Sanskrit sutras as well as from the ancient commentaries and that it was later elaborated into a set of graphic drawings.
http://www.dharmaweb.org/index.php/Zen_ ... ola_Rahula

There are also a couple dozenish little suttas near the pabhassara sutta on citta that might help.

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beeblebrox
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Re: Meaning of “Pabhassaramidam cittam bhikkhave”?

Postby beeblebrox » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:35 pm

I think that we should be careful about drawing inference when there might be none. The Buddha is simply saying that the citta itself is luminous, and that it will shine forth when there are no defilements. That is what makes it possible for the monks to study it, and make progress... but not for the uninstructed run-of-mill person, because his is still obstructed.

:anjali:

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piotr
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Re: Meaning of “Pabhassaramidam cittam bhikkhave”?

Postby piotr » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:21 pm

Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...

starter
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Re: Meaning of “Pabhassaramidam cittam bhikkhave”?

Postby starter » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:36 am


lojong1
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Re: Meaning of “Pabhassaramidam cittam bhikkhave”?

Postby lojong1 » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:21 am


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beeblebrox
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Re: Meaning of “Pabhassaramidam cittam bhikkhave”?

Postby beeblebrox » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:53 am



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