YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

Intermediaries in the Pali Texts? - Dhamma Wheel

Intermediaries in the Pali Texts?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
User avatar
qoheleth
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:34 am

Intermediaries in the Pali Texts?

Postby qoheleth » Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:09 pm

Greetings,

I feel that Theravada Buddhism is possibly being misrepresented on another forum that I sometimes frequent. The poster says that it is a western misunderstanding that Buddhists can become enlightened without an intermediary, and that the Pali texts make it clear that one can ONLY achieve Nibbana when practicing under a living Buddha.

Am I correct in believing that this gentleman is off track, or is there any truth to his claims?

Thanks in advance!

User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Intermediaries in the Pali Texts?

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:17 pm

Hi qoheleth,

It might be easier to comment if you could give a link to the other discussion. The Theravada interpretation is that a Buddha re-discovers the Path for himself in the lifetime he becomes a Buddha. However, since becoming a Buddha is said to take aeons, and there are suttas that suggest that he met previous Buddhas in previous lifetimes, whether those meetings are an important factor is an interesting question.

E.g. see: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 20#p140277

:anjali:
Mike

User avatar
qoheleth
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:34 am

Re: Intermediaries in the Pali Texts?

Postby qoheleth » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:19 pm

Thanks, Mike.

Your explanation makes sense to me. This poster didn't say that meetings with past Buddhas were possibly an important factor in his awakening. He said awakening was impossible without studying under a Buddha.

Here's the gentleman's quote: "... the good priest states that early Buddhism (the Buddhism of the Pali texts) taught that there was no "intermediary" needed between the unenlightened human being, and Nibbana/Nirvana. That's a common misunderstanding in the West. In fact, the Pali texts show that whoever realizes Nibbana/Nirvana, realizes it by studying under a living Buddha. No one becomes a Buddha, without studying under a Buddha."

Am I correct in thinking that he is mistaken here?

User avatar
cooran
Posts: 8502
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: Intermediaries in the Pali Texts?

Postby cooran » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:36 pm

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

Kenshou
Posts: 1030
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:03 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Re: Intermediaries in the Pali Texts?

Postby Kenshou » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:58 pm

Isn't there a sutta where it is said along the lines of, as long as there are monks practicing in accordance with the dhamma, the world will not be without arahants?

I can't recall where it is, but I'm sure someone here knows.

User avatar
Kare
Posts: 751
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:58 am
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Intermediaries in the Pali Texts?

Postby Kare » Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:11 pm

Mettāya,
Kåre

User avatar
qoheleth
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:34 am

Re: Intermediaries in the Pali Texts?

Postby qoheleth » Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:12 pm


User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
Posts: 10648
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Contact:

Re: Intermediaries in the Pali Texts?

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:30 pm

He is mistaken. In no place did the Buddha say one must hear directly from him to attain enlightenment.

When asked who his successor would be after passing, the Buddha said, "Let the Dhamma be your guide" Digha Nikaya 16

was born after the Buddha's passing and is one of many who attained enlightenment.
Image





Return to “General Theravāda discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 25 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine