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Vipassana and the 12 links - Dhamma Wheel

Vipassana and the 12 links

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Sacha G
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Vipassana and the 12 links

Postby Sacha G » Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:27 pm

Hi
As I understand vipassana, it's a recognition of the three characteristics within the compounded phenomena. Now this is based on observation of the arising and vanishing of the five aggregates. And this allows to obtain right view.
But, I don't see any condition between this and the fact of understanding paticcasamuppada, all the more as the classical explanation runs on 3 lives, and that this cannot be observed, unless you get the divine eye. :coffee:
Therefore I would like to know if you have any idea about this?
Thanx
Sacha
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Sacha G
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Re: Vipassana and the 12 links

Postby Sacha G » Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:29 pm

Sorry I meant * connexion, not condition. :|
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clw_uk
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Re: Vipassana and the 12 links

Postby clw_uk » Sun Jan 09, 2011 3:15 pm

For the three lives answer I do not know


But for the in the moment answer, I can refer you to this http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/Books ... uppada.htm
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

PeterB
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Re: Vipassana and the 12 links

Postby PeterB » Sun Jan 09, 2011 3:23 pm

As Craig says its not about the three lives hypothesis directly. Although Vipassana certainly does not deny the three lives view. Rather it is saying that what is germaine to past present and future can be found right here, with proper instruction and the right context.

pegembara
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Re: Vipassana and the 12 links

Postby pegembara » Sun Jan 09, 2011 3:30 pm

Svakkato Bhagavata Dhammo (well expounded is the Exalted One’s Dhamma)
Sanditthiko (to be seen here and now)
Akaliko (not delayed in time)
Ehipassiko ( (inviting one to) come and see)
Opanayiko (leading inwards)
Paccatam Veditabbo Vinnuhiti (to be seen by each wise man for himself)
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

Sacha G
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Re: Vipassana and the 12 links

Postby Sacha G » Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:13 pm

Thank you for your answers already!
Actually I was wondering how the instructions on satipatthana (which are sufficient to bring to right view, I assume) fit with the exposition of paticcasamuppada, even if this paticcasamuppada is interpreted as showing what's happening in this very life, or even this very instant.
:juggling:
Thank U
Sacha
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householder
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Re: Vipassana and the 12 links

Postby householder » Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:15 pm


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retrofuturist
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Re: Vipassana and the 12 links

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:23 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

alan
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Re: Vipassana and the 12 links

Postby alan » Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:32 am

Hi Sacha.
One question at a time. please!
Arising and passing away, or fading, might be a better way of understanding than using the word "vanishing". There is a subtle difference.
Although I know smart people who would argue otherwise, I've dropped the 3 lives idea. It just seems overly complex and not of immediate use.
One last point--the "3 characteristics" have been elevated to a high status in Vipassana. This might not correspond directly to some of the basic suttas. But that is enough for now.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Vipassana and the 12 links

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:35 am

Greetings,

Just a quick reminder that in the Classical Mahavihara section, the Tipitaka and associated commentaries are considered definitive for the purposes of discussion.

Thanks for your understanding.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

alan
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Re: Vipassana and the 12 links

Postby alan » Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:50 am

Oh, sorry.
Sacha might get a more satisfying response in another forum where her question(s) can be discussed freely.

Sacha G
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Re: Vipassana and the 12 links

Postby Sacha G » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:30 pm

Hi, a small detail which has nothing to do, but Sacha's a male name ;)
Apart from that, if someone knows how to redirect this post to a more appropriate freedom (i.e allowing the interpretation within one lifetime of paticcasamuppada), it'd be nice!
:bow:
Pali and Theravada texts:
http://dhamma.webnode.com

Sacha G
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Re: Vipassana and the 12 links

Postby Sacha G » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:32 pm

I meant * thread, not "freedom" :sage:
Sacha
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retrofuturist
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Re: Vipassana and the 12 links

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:39 pm

Greetings,

Topic moved to General Theravada in accord with OP's request.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

householder
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Re: Vipassana and the 12 links

Postby householder » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:46 pm


alan
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Re: Vipassana and the 12 links

Postby alan » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:13 am

Best to understand the word akaliko and see how it is used in context. That alone might answer your questions.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Vipassana and the 12 links

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:19 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Nibbida
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Re: Vipassana and the 12 links

Postby Nibbida » Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:15 pm

Hi Sacha,

My favorite explanation of this is Christina Feldman's article:

One of the ways that vipassana plays into the 12 links is that it can nip the process in the bud. Without mindfulness, feeling turns into craving, which turns into clinging/attachment. But mindfulness can allow us to watch that process and let it dissipate instead of progress.

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Dmytro
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Re: Vipassana and the 12 links

Postby Dmytro » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:37 am




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