Ali Kali / Vowels and Consonants

[Nilasarasvati]

Does anybody have a link to somebody actually pronouncing these correctly? It would be a hugely helpful foundational practice for anybody who's a nursery room learner of Tibetan like me.

ALSO in Sanskrit. That would be really cool!

[Grigoris]

Does anybody have a link to somebody actually pronouncing these correctly? It would be a hugely helpful foundational practice for anybody who's a nursery room learner of Tibetan like me.

ALSO in Sanskrit. That would be really cool!

Tibetan? The mantra is just the Sanskrit alphabet (as Tibetans see it). You should just pronounce it like it was transmitted to you.

[dzogchungpa]

That should be "Ali Kali", btw.

[Nilasarasvati]

RGGh I just noticed that. It's too late now...*prays to the moderators*

[Aemilius]

There are several sanskrit tutorials in the internet, they have sound files that contain the sanskrit or devanagari alphabet. Here is one of them http://www.acharya.gen.in:8080/sanskrit/lessons.php
It is interesting to compare the different pronunciations of sanskrit alphabet.

[kirtu]

Does anybody have a link to somebody actually pronouncing these correctly? It would be a hugely helpful foundational practice for anybody who's a nursery room learner of Tibetan like me.

ALSO in Sanskrit. That would be really cool!

Of course they are Sanskrit. However when HH Penor Rinpoche gave the transmission for this he made it clear that in his opinion Westerners had difficulty with the pronunciation. This part of (mostly Nyingma) Tibetan Buddhism stems from the view that Sanskrit itself is a blessed language. Even HH Sakya Trizen has spoken about this aspect of Tibetan Buddhism and the Ali-Kali are not recited in Sakya.

But the transliterations one sees in texts are close enough. Afterall, HH Penor Rinpoche pronounced them like a Tibetan and I don't think he followed Sanskrit pronunciation (in fact this may even be in my notes - I'll check when I can).

Kirt

[Grigoris]

There are several sanskrit tutorials in the internet, they have sound files that contain the sanskrit or devanagari alphabet. Here is one of them http://www.acharya.gen.in:8080/sanskrit/lessons.php
It is interesting to compare the different pronunciations of sanskrit alphabet.

I can't access this site, eset doesn't like it at all!

[Aemilius]

That is strange, I can get it easily. It is an indian site. A time-honored method is first to try other indian sites, when Your computer has got used to being in India, try again the Acharya Sanskrit address.

[GyalwaGyatso]

Can you explain why the Kali mantra has an extra column of consonants? There are 4 columns in the trad'l Sanskrit alphabet but Kali mantra has five. Thanks!

[conebeckham]

Can you explain why the Kali mantra has an extra column of consonants? There are 4 columns in the trad'l Sanskrit alphabet but Kali mantra has five. Thanks!

There are five consonantal rows....and five columns.
the rows are: guttaral, palatal, cerebral, dental, labial.
The fifth column are nasal or semi-nasal....Nga, Nya, Na (cerebral nasal), and Na (Dental nasal), and Ma.

[tingdzin]

Since Sanskrit started to replace the various Prakrits in the transmission of Mahayana, there has been an ongoing debate about how important the "proper" pronunciation of Sanskrit letters and mantras is. Sanskrit is a very precise and well-ordered language, but the idea that there is some metaphysical special quality to it come from Brahmanical influence. Chandrakirti believed that the efficacy of mantras resided in the realization of those who used them rather than in the language itself. There is an article by Eltschinger on academia. edu that deals with this question. IMO it is more important to actualize the visualizations that accompany Ali Kali recitation than to sweat the pronunciation.

[Grigoris]

Actually, we do the mantra in order to purify errors that we have made, in the pronunciation of the sadhana and mantra. That is why it is normally recited along with OM YE DHARMA... To purify errors in view that we have made during our practice. And it is normally recited along with the 100 syllable mantra too, to purify karmic errors made during practice.

[Natan]

Does anybody have a link to somebody actually pronouncing these correctly? It would be a hugely helpful foundational practice for anybody who's a nursery room learner of Tibetan like me.

ALSO in Sanskrit. That would be really cool!

You should be able to find audio of that on YouTube.