Dharma Wheel

I'm rooting for you, Jesse
I don't know how to help concretely, but you never know so please feel free to drop me a PM whenever.

im just wondering has anybody here been to Thamkrabot in thailand? i hear they have a very good method for curing opiate addictions in people

ClearblueSky wrote:

padma norbu wrote:Another smoking herb is called "little marihuanilla" or something. It won't get you stoned, either, but former marijuana smokers say it is pretty great substitute if you have to pass drug tests.
.....
There is also something called "kanna" that is a natural SSRI, apparently. You can make tea out of it or put a pinch under your tongue and suck on it for a while, then swallow it, almost like chewing tobacco.

From what I've heard, marihuanilla may actually be considered a mild psychoactive. I'm pretty sure it's usually sold at head shops only, not usually at health stores that carry supplements. Kanna seems less bad, but also may be a bit of a stimulant.
These substances themselves may be almost totally harmless, but for an addict (especially one starting recovery), trying something that causes even a little bit of brain chemistry change is the absolute last thing you want to do, unless it's something specifically discussed with a specialist. Most people can have zero problem, but even the mildest thing can trigger the very specific "addiction" part of the brain for someone with the disease, and lead back to more trouble. It's a big part of the reason why addicts end up replacing one addiction with another, and then eventually relapsing to the original. Just something to be very careful about.

I take kanna regularly. There is no noticeable difference in how I feel other than "not depressed." People have been taking it forever and there is really nothing bad about it. The only thing people say may be a problem is if you are already on prozac or other SSRIs. They're not really sure how kanna works, but they think it may be a natural SSRI, which is why they offer the warning on most sites. (Taking 2 SSRIs at once would be a bad, mkay?)

I also take damiana tea regularly. It was first suggested to me by someone on E-sangha... and it works! There is nothing that is going to make anyone with addictive tendencies go off the deep end with either of these substances. I am a person with addictive tendencies. Damiana is a perfect drink when I feel like I want to get drunk. The anxiety goes away, I feel calm and good and no longer feel that sort of tension that makes me want to get drunk. I would compare it to the popular calming teas on the market, except that it actually works.

I'm quite sure the Marley black tea drink is okay, too!

Marihuanilla / muellin is common enough in all-natural smoking blends and most people complain that they don't get them high at all, just relaxed and kind of "familiar" to pot in some non-high ways (taste & relaxation, I presumed) so I figured it was quite safe. It may be a mild psychoactive, but so is coffee! I've definitely tried it before many years ago and I did not get high from it. If it is found in headshops, THAT particular kind most likely has been laced with synthetic cannabinoids. You can find it in its all natural state at plenty of places online, however.

The one I didn't mention was Kratom because the OP said he has addiction to opiates. Well, Kratom is an opiate, basically. You can get totally addicted to kratom the same way you can heroine or oxycontin. Stay away from that stuff. You'll see it sold online at the same sort of places that sell Marihuanilla/muellin. Just pointing it out because if you happen to run into it, leave it alone.

Hey, Jesse. Best of luck. I found that the ability to conquer addiction arises from a steely determination to be free of it. I found the synthetic opiates the hardest as the hard withdrawal can last months. Just try another approach until you make it. In my case I had a cooperative doctor who helped me off Methadone. I staged down through Morphine to Codeine, keeping stepping down the dose until going to the next. Finally a low dose of codeine was easy for my determination to conquer.
To be frank I hear you making excuses to stay addicted: it's hard, I just don't feel good without it, etc. Don't expect an outside source to free you! "Free yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds".

Jigme Tsultrim wrote:Hey, Jesse. Best of luck. I found that the ability to conquer addiction arises from a steely determination to be free of it. I found the synthetic opiates the hardest as the hard withdrawal can last months. Just try another approach until you make it. In my case I had a cooperative doctor who helped me off Methadone. I staged down through Morphine to Codeine, keeping stepping down the dose until going to the next. Finally a low dose of codeine was easy for my determination to conquer.
To be frank I hear you making excuses to stay addicted: it's hard, I just don't feel good without it, etc. Don't expect an outside source to free you! "Free yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds".

Someone who takes medication on your own
is a druggie

someone who does the same thing under the supervision of a physician
is a patient.

I gotta take inhibitors SSRI,I must do this because I have anexiety neurosis and little social phobia.

Drugs of this type does not heal cause many side effects

I would like to set aside as soon as these drugs
but instead of improving health for the help and chemistry
I want to do using the appropriate mantras.

So
First I have to eliminate my anxiety
and then the side effects whichdrugs caused in me .

What do you propose?
Has anyone recovered from neurosis or phobia using a particular practice?

For example
after I take pill
I should chant Purification with the mantra of the five elements?
This make to swallowing drugs do not cause side effects?

i have eliminated severe anxiety and fear through practice and life changes. usually when we step outside our comfort zone we have to confront those things that we are escaping and that sometimes can loosen the grip of fear and anxiety. but you have to be wise and not do things stupidly.

hi snowid,
ive found simple anapana meditation to be quite effective for withdrawl , its very easy on the mind

One of the symptoms of my neurosis is ..
I can not focus on the breath
because when I start to think about it ,breath becomes unnatural and I finish with hyperventilation

My breath is correct when I dont think about them.

I prefer vizualization

I know a lot of people who use kratom to help with withdrawals. Does anyone else have any of this experience? I'd like to hear your stories.

Jesse wrote:... no matter how much I want to quit, ( I really dont want to ) ... Thanks for reading.

Thanks for posting.

Alcoholic and addict speaking. The only thing that has worked for me with any consistency was AA, and a good addiction specialist. Whenever I stop going, sometimes even after a very very long period of time ("oh wow they were wrong about me all along, it's not a "terminal disease" and all that BS, I've been "cured" now for almost a year", etc) ... sooner or later I'm headed off the wagon again into some bender. (In my case it's because of cycling through other issues also ).

You already know - the painkillers are just totally different. You'll never get to the point where you'll "want to". That's why they are what they are. They just take over your thoughts and desires. God forbid you have any kind of bottom out experience. I won't describe mine, but it happened about 6 years ago. I came as close as you can get to losing everything without actually losing it.

I was luckier than a lot of other people. I had better support from my family than I deserved, found a great specialist who took my plan (if you're in the NYC area PM me if you want his info), a good couple of local groups that were at a good time and close to where I worked, etc. These days the focus is on alcohol but even after all this time I still can't have painkillers in the house. Just no way.

Will pray. It can be done.

kratomking wrote:I know a lot of people who use kratom to help with withdrawals. Does anyone else have any of this experience? I'd like to hear your stories.

If you are withdrawing from alcohol or benzo's you need medical supervision, not some (yet another) wonder plant.

Reminder: the OP here is from 2013.

Just very recently I was wondering, how Jesse might be. I hope from the bottom of my heart, his life improved.
May you be well, Jesse.

kratomking wrote:I know a lot of people who use kratom to help with withdrawals. Does anyone else have any of this experience? I'd like to hear your stories.

Seems to be quite poisonous, likewise addictive and last not least illegal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitragyna ... ted_States

Ayu wrote:

kratomking wrote:I know a lot of people who use kratom to help with withdrawals. Does anyone else have any of this experience? I'd like to hear your stories.

Seems to be quite poisonous, likewise addictive and last not least illegal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitragyna ... ted_States

It gets touted as a wonder plant and a (for now) legal alternative to marijuana. Like pot, you get a lot of people who are really passionate about it both ways. Still, a person I talked to who used it for pain relief said it didn't help her in that regard, but it made her sick to her stomach instead.

You may benefits greatly from a skillful use of Ayahuasca. One center specialised in healing drug addicts with good results is Takiwasi in Peru. They have a lot of experience and scientists, doctors go visit them'and learn frol them.

Otherwise, if you have the opportunity you can do the initiation with the Iboga roots (a two night ceremony). It is'extremly powerful and have good results with problem of addiction. It's extremly powerful.

Some clinic offer the use of ibogain the main alcaloid which is anti-addicitve. I have no experience in the specific context of ibogain.

You may read the book "iboga the visionary root of african shamanism".

I met people who in an iboga session contacted things years of psychanalysis did not even start to touch.

Find some information on this subject, it offers great hope for drug addicts, even severe case (but do it in a "profesionnal" (experimented) settings).

It has to be done by specialists, really.

Maybe the cactus Peyotl can be of a good help too.

It is said thoses plants (used in the right context with the right person) can heal, and even save.

Don't do it alone. Never. Also, taking drugs and iboga at the same time can be lethal. Do it in the right place with the right persons.

Soma999 wrote:You may benefits greatly from a skillful use of Ayahuasca. One center specialised in healing drug addicts with good results is Takiwasi in Peru. They have a lot of experience and scientists, doctors go visit them'and learn frol them.

Otherwise, if you have the opportunity you can do the initiation with the Iboga roots (a two night ceremony). It is'extremly powerful and have good results with problem of addiction. It's extremly powerful.

Some clinic offer the use of ibogain the main alcaloid which is anti-addicitve. I have no experience in the specific context of ibogain.

You may read the book "iboga the visionary root of african shamanism".

I met people who in an iboga session contacted things years of psychanalysis did not even start to touch.

Find some information on this subject, it offers great hope for drug addicts, even severe case (but do it in a "profesionnal" (experimented) settings).

It has to be done by specialists, really.

Maybe the cactus Peyotl can be of a good help too.

It is said thoses plants (used in the right context with the right person) can heal, and even save.

Don't do it alone. Never. Also, taking drugs and iboga at the same time can be lethal. Do it in the right place with the right persons.

Promoting drug use to a person trying to cut drug use. That's really intelligent. Bordering on homicidal.

Sherab Dorje wrote:

Soma999 wrote:You may benefits greatly from a skillful use of Ayahuasca. One center specialised in healing drug addicts with good results is Takiwasi in Peru. They have a lot of experience and scientists, doctors go visit them'and learn frol them.

Otherwise, if you have the opportunity you can do the initiation with the Iboga roots (a two night ceremony). It is'extremly powerful and have good results with problem of addiction. It's extremly powerful.

Some clinic offer the use of ibogain the main alcaloid which is anti-addicitve. I have no experience in the specific context of ibogain.

You may read the book "iboga the visionary root of african shamanism".

I met people who in an iboga session contacted things years of psychanalysis did not even start to touch.

Find some information on this subject, it offers great hope for drug addicts, even severe case (but do it in a "profesionnal" (experimented) settings).

It has to be done by specialists, really.

Maybe the cactus Peyotl can be of a good help too.

It is said thoses plants (used in the right context with the right person) can heal, and even save.

Don't do it alone. Never. Also, taking drugs and iboga at the same time can be lethal. Do it in the right place with the right persons.

Promoting drug use to a person trying to cut drug use. That's really intelligent. Bordering on homicidal.

Psychedelics are not habit forming, and have to be approached in a sacred attitude. They typically abuse profound visionary experiences that are life altering and terrifying at times. Usually folks cannot handle more than one experiment. Often people with addictions are forever changed by such insights. They are nothing like pain killers, sedatives and opiates.

Yes I don't think it is wise to lump all psychoactive compounds together with the term drug. Some allow people to escape, and become addictions. Others force people to look at their lives, and if used properly can be positively transformative. There is research with positive results of using psychedelics to treat addictions, it does not strike me as bad advice so long as one seeks out such treatment wisely.

I guess you guys are trained drug and alcohol dependency (post graduate qualifications) counsellors with backgrounds in psychology (like I am) and are handing out advice. Right?

Oh, you are not...

Okay then...