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... pe ... - Dhamma Wheel

... pe ...

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nowheat
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... pe ...

Postby nowheat » Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:20 pm


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Sobeh
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Re: ... pe ...

Postby Sobeh » Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:48 pm

From for reference:

‘‘‘Idaṃ dukkhaṃ ariyasacca’nti me, bhikkhave, pubbe ananussutesu dhammesu cakkhuṃ udapādi, ñāṇaṃ udapādi, paññā udapādi, vijjā udapādi, āloko udapādi. ‘Taṃ kho panidaṃ dukkhaṃ ariyasaccaṃ pariññeyya’nti me, bhikkhave, pubbe…pe… udapādi. ‘Taṃ kho panidaṃ dukkhaṃ ariyasaccaṃ pariññāta’nti me, bhikkhave, pubbe ananussutesu dhammesu cakkhuṃ udapādi, ñāṇaṃ udapādi, paññā udapādi, vijjā udapādi, āloko udapādi.

nowheat
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Re: ... pe ...

Postby nowheat » Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:38 am


lojong1
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Re: ... pe ...

Postby lojong1 » Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:47 am

Sobeh, I think your Pali is from the next paragraphs of the sutta:
"“’Suffering, as a noble truth, is this.’ Such was the vision, the knowledge, the understanding, the finding, the light, that arose in regard to ideas not heard by me before. ’This suffering, as a noble truth, can be diagnosed.’ Such was the vision, the knowledge, the understanding, the finding, the light, that arose in regard to ideas not heard by me before. ’This suffering, as a noble truth, has been diagnosed.’ Such was the vision, the knowledge, the understanding, the finding, the light, that arose in regard to ideas not heard by me before."

Nowheat's passage: "...this..is the noble truth of the origin of suffering: it is this craving which leads to renewed existence, accompanied by delight and lust, seeking delight here and there; that is, craving for sensual pleasures, craving for existence, craving for extermination."
is this: "Idaṃ kho pana, bhikkhave, dukkhasamudayaṃ ariyasaccaṃ— yāyaṃ taṇhā ponobbhavikā nandirāgasahagatā tatratatrābhinandinī, seyyathidaṃ— kāmataṇhā, bhavataṇhā, vibhavataṇhā."

gives the Pali often with multiple English versions in the same place (5 here).

In MN, Bodhi only uses "...Pe..." for passages that have appeared earlier in the same book, though not necessarily in the same sutta (referenced with a note). Sometimes you can track down the original location using the index or glossary when they give pages of occurrence. I'd guess his use of 'pe' might also be mentioned in his preface or introduction.

The underlined words are what you wanted?...Ponobbhavika for sure is discussed in 'the great rebirth debate.
Last edited by lojong1 on Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

lojong1
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Re: ... pe ...

Postby lojong1 » Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:51 am

‘‘‘Idaṃ dukkhaṃ ariyasacca’nti me, bhikkhave, pubbe ananussutesu dhammesu cakkhuṃ udapādi, ñāṇaṃ udapādi, paññā udapādi, vijjā udapādi, āloko udapādi. ‘Taṃ kho panidaṃ dukkhaṃ ariyasaccaṃ pariññeyya’nti me, bhikkhave, pubbe…pe… udapādi. ‘Taṃ kho panidaṃ dukkhaṃ ariyasaccaṃ pariññāta’nti me, bhikkhave, pubbe ananussutesu dhammesu cakkhuṃ udapādi, ñāṇaṃ udapādi, paññā udapādi, vijjā udapādi, āloko udapādi.

Here, ...pe... is giving everything between 'pubbe' and the last 'udapadi' of the previous line.

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yuttadhammo
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Re: ... pe ...

Postby yuttadhammo » Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:59 am





Upasampadā: 4 December, 2001

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Sobeh
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Re: ... pe ...

Postby Sobeh » Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:30 am

Sorry about the misleading passage, there.

nowheat
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Re: ... pe ...

Postby nowheat » Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:07 am

Thank you, lojong, yes, those are the words I was looking for. I appear to have been looking in the wrong spot (further down the passage than I should have been).

And thanks for mentioning the great rebirth debate thread. I was going to ask my original question there (about what is meant by "clinging to non-existence") but I thought it would get lost in the two handfuls of tens of pages of posts. I started a separate thread for it in the same neighborhood, but am not feeling confident that anyone is confident in their own answers.

Thanks also to yuttadhammo for insight into usage and forms of the words.

I appreciate everyone's help. I knew I had to be missing something obvious.

:namaste:


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