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Insight development VS cula-sotapanna fixed destiny - Dhamma Wheel

Insight development VS cula-sotapanna fixed destiny

A forum for members who wish to develop a deeper understanding of the Pali Canon and associated Commentaries, which for discussion purposes are both treated as authoritative.

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pt1
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Insight development VS cula-sotapanna fixed destiny

Postby pt1 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:48 am

Hi, I’m trying to understand how does insight develop over consecutive lives, especially in the case of bodhisattas and (future) chief disciples of a (future) buddha.

As far as I can tell, there seem to be two opposing viewpoints in the commentaries:

1. Insight develops all the way up to sankhar’upekkha nana over multiple lives.

2. When insight develops to paccaya pariggaha nana, one becomes a cula-sotpanna of a fixed destiny, which means that s/he’s assured of not being reborn in the four lower realms and (if I’m not mistaken) assured of becoming a sotapanna in the same life. This would seem to imply that insight can be developed beyond paccaya pariggaha nana only in the last life.

The two viewpoints seem to be contradictory so I wonder if anyone knows how are they reconciled? Thanks.

The sources I came across online for the first viewpoint:
Three posts by Bhante Dhammanando from DSG , giving translations from Majjhima and Puggalapannatti commentaries and Visuddhimagga 442-3 (Path of Purification XIV 28-31).
I remember Pa-Auk Sayadaw says the same thing (about sankhar’upekkha nana) in his Knowing and Seeing, though can't remember the page at the moment.

Three quotes which are related to cula-sotapanna issue are given in - from Visuddhimagga XIX, 26, 27; Ledi Sayadaw and Dr Mehm Tin Mon.

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Re: Insight development VS cula-sotapanna fixed destiny

Postby Paññāsikhara » Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:14 am

May wish to bring in the notion of sammatta-niyama, too.

Pūrvaśaila:
22. The person who is affirmed in the eventual attainment of enlightenment (niyata) enters (okkamati) into affirmation (niyāma).387
There are two determinate states, i.e., states where the maturation is determined: determination on falsehood (micchattaniyama) resulting from unpardonable action (anantariyakamma) and the determination on correctness (sammattaniyama) which is the noble Path (ariyamagga). The Pubbaseliyas allude to another determination not recognoized by the Theravādins. Actually, the Buddhas can know, by means of their own power of consciousness (ñaṇabala), that such and such a being (satta) will attain (pāpuṇissati) awakening (bodhi) in the future (anāgata), and it is said: “The Bodhisatta is confirmed in the eventual attainment of enlightenment (niyata) due to the excellence of his own merit (puññussadattā).” Now the Bodhisatta who has come to his last lifetime (pacchimabhava), who is already fixed from this point of view, is able (bhabba) to understand completely (abhisametuṃ) [the Dharma] from the time of this birth (jāti) and thus is able to enter into the determination on correctness.
387 Kv, XIII, 4.

Theravāda:
127. The person (puggala) attached to an immediate destiny (anantarāpayutta) cannot enter into the assurance of eventual attainment of enlightenment (sammattaniyāma).1305
1305 Kv, XIII, 3.

Uttarāpathaka:
20. The individual (puggala) attached to an immediate destiny (anantarāpayutta) can enter into (okkameyya) the assurance of attaining eventual enlightenment (sammattaniyāma).1460
1460 Kv, XIII, 3.

I'll leave out other schools' ideas about this from non-Theravada sources.
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

Heavenstorm
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Re: Insight development VS cula-sotapanna fixed destiny

Postby Heavenstorm » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:35 pm


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Re: Insight development VS cula-sotapanna fixed destiny

Postby rowyourboat » Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:59 pm

I thought villa sotapanna was assured of enlightenment but I don't think it is mentioned in which lifetime this occures.
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bazzaman
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Re: Insight development VS cula-sotapanna fixed destiny

Postby bazzaman » Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:57 am

.
Last edited by bazzaman on Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Insight development VS cula-sotapanna fixed destiny

Postby Sekha » Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:11 am

This samyutta deals with that matter : http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .html#sn25

The Buddha states that a CS cannot die in this life before having attained sotapatti. Therefore he is guaranteed of both sotapatti and non-rebirth in lower realms. But there is no very precise desciption as to when exactly one becomes CS
Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli

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Re: Insight development VS cula-sotapanna fixed destiny

Postby bazzaman » Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:16 am


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Re: Insight development VS cula-sotapanna fixed destiny

Postby Sekha » Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:38 am

Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli

http://www.buddha-vacana.org

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Re: Insight development VS cula-sotapanna fixed destiny

Postby pt1 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:00 am


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Re: Insight development VS cula-sotapanna fixed destiny

Postby pt1 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:05 am


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Re: Insight development VS cula-sotapanna fixed destiny

Postby Paññāsikhara » Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:14 am

My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

pt1
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Re: Insight development VS cula-sotapanna fixed destiny

Postby pt1 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:27 am



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