Vajrayana and Bön

Discussion of the fifth religious tradition of Tibet.

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Vajrayana and Bön

Postby kalden yungdrung » Sun Aug 01, 2010 11:15 pm

Tashi delek to everybody,

May i introduce myself?
The name is Kalden Yungdrung and i am a Bönpo.
Further am i the president of a Bon foundation named Yungdrung Rignga Ling situated in the Netherlands.
We have here a nice Lha Kang with a good program.

Vajrayana or Dorje Thekpa includes the Sarma traditions like:
Nyingma, Shakya, Kagyu and Gelug

Bön is from before the Sarma traditions or before 800.

That means that Bön is the ancient religion of Tibet.

What i try to explain is that we finally have a better word for the Vajrayana and Bön together namely the 5 Tibetan Traditions which consists out of the Bön and Sarma traditions.

Both the Bön- and the Sarma traditions have their Buddhas namely:

Bön - Buddha Tonpa Shenrab Miwo
Sarma - The Indian Buddha Shakyamuni

We never can give Vajrayana followers and Bon followers the name of Buddhist, because this would maybe mean that Bön venerates the Indian Buddha Shakyamuni and that the Sarma tradition or Vajrayana would venerate Buddha Tönpa Shenrab, this would be confusing...... Whereas they both have Buddhas who are in essence the same.

We, westerns call a Tibetan general a Buddhist, whereas this word is not known to the Tibetans.

The Tibetans know the Chöd pa = a Vajrayana or Dorje Thekpa or Buddha Shakyamuni follower
and
the Bönpo who is a Buddha Tönpa Shenrab follower


We better can say that the Vajrayana and Bön have Buddhas out of different historical cycles.
Further did those two Buddhas not teach the same things or Dharma.

So maybe better would be, to replace Vajrayana with the name:"the 5 Tibetan Buddhist Traditions".
The latter can be sub-divided in Bon and Vajrayana / Dorje Thekpa traditions.

Regards,
Kalden Yungdrung
President: foundation Yungdrung Rignga Ling
Last edited by kalden yungdrung on Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD
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Re: Vajrayana and Bön

Postby ronnewmexico » Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:04 am

Yes very nice and informative, thank you for providing that.

I realize many of the ceremonies and empowerments and such, seems about exactly the same.
To what extent is the foundation of lack of inherant existance and the caused/dependently originated nature of things present in Bon?

Is there considered a soul or essence that transmigrates upon death, or is no such thing present?
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Vajrayana and Bön

Postby kalden yungdrung » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:02 am

ronnewmexico wrote:Yes very nice and informative, thank you for providing that.

I realize many of the ceremonies and empowerments and such, seems about exactly the same.
To what extent is the foundation of lack of inherant existance and the caused/dependently originated nature of things present in Bon?

Is there considered a soul or essence that transmigrates upon death, or is no such thing present?



Hello ronnewmexico :)

Thanks for your reply.

In Bön we know that their Geshes have examination in the Madyamaka philosophy.
This because the Gelug proclaimed once during their rulership in the Tibet from before 1959, the Prasangika Madyamaka philosophy in the lineage of Chandrakirti etc. as the only valid Tibetan philosophy.
They did in those days grouped the Tibetan philosophy in 2, namely

Rangtong - Madyamaka or better said Gelug Prasangika Madyamaka - for those with eternalism problems
Shentong - Madyamaka based but then with more a self-realisation - for those with nihilism problems.

Shentong is in the lineage of the Jonang and Dolpopa, Taranatha etc.
The Jonangpas were in those days persecuted by the Gelug because they adhered the wrong philosophy or Shentong.
Their monasteries were confiscated by the Gelug and their huge collection blockprints burned. This was the Tibetan form of inquisition.

So both Rangtong as well Shentong are seen as the two wings of the bird.

Yes many rituals in Tibet etc. are based upon the Bön culture like prayer flags, tormas, Sur Sang etc.
The Sarma tradition did place all Indian Dharma on the cutten trunk of Bön, because Bön was the forerunner.
Therefore is the Dorje Thekpa tradition a colourfull mix of several foreign elements as well the old Tibetan cultural Bön elements like mountain gods, prayer flags, the Lung ta, torma, Sang, medicine, Parka, exorcism, the book of the dying, Ransom rituals, oracle, Tulku tradition which is unknown in the Indian culture, Anatarabhava.....

Best wishes for your personal praxis

Kalden Yungdrung
THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD
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Re: Vajrayana and Bön

Postby ronnewmexico » Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:56 pm

Thank you very much.

So it seems Bon does incorporate the same philosophical vehicle which allows for consideration of noself entity no soul and no inherant existance.

So I am happy that is so. I find the idea of the two divergant philosophies a interesting one dependent upon inclination

Certainly such approaches may be found in mainstream Buddhism but not as inclination but upon choice of school. So those inclined may choose school.

Did Bon have thoee philosophies at its inception, as inceptional philosophy, or was it a add on in response to Buddhist influence?
It is certainly a tragic story. I find some that equate historic Tibet to a mandella of perfection.....hardly on mark.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Vajrayana and Bön

Postby Josef » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:08 pm

It should be interesting to see how this plays out.
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