Acceptance or Judgement?

[Dave The Seeker]

As someone new to Buddhism, I have thought that we should accept that each is drawn to their own path.
As in which 'school/lineage' they choose. Or even which religion they choose. As I have read, at least they are being taught the proper way to live and treat each other.

I have seen so many posts in which members say things like "this teacher said.........and you are mistaken".
I understand that there is some minor differences in the lineages of Buddhism. But each does give great direction to the proper way to live and to accept others for who they are and their spiritual path as well as to treat them as brothers and sisters.
Not the little brother or sister you picked on or the older one you try to get back at.
This is referring to Mahayana Buddhism and it's different lineages. As this is the only one I have an understanding of, and a minor one at that.

I have greatly appreciated the help from so many members here in the explanation's they've given me and others in understanding the Teachings of The Buddha.
But there are some that no matter what is being discussed must say they are right according to the lineage they follow, and all others are wrong.

So why must we judge others and not accept that each is learning as they progress on their path in the lineage and from the teachers/lamas they have been drawn too?

[PadmaVonSamba]

That's why the Buddha said taught the truth of suffering.
It is not difficult to overcome the obstacles you mention
but it takes a lot of diligence and effort.
Thanks for your observations!
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[viniketa]

I have seen so many posts in which members say things like "this teacher said.........and you are mistaken"

Also, you should understand that all this argumentation is part of the Buddhist heritage and interpreted as being something of which the Buddha would approve (see the Kalama Sutta). In fact, probably some posters may consider this as part of their 'practice'.

Although some traditions say that one must do whatever it takes to show that your opponents 'view' is wrong, I myself prefer a more respectful style that does not denigrate one's opponent, their character, or their teacher.

[KeithBC]

some traditions say that one must do whatever it takes to show that your opponents 'view' is wrong

I would certainly not subscribe to that view. If I feel that someone's view is wrong, there is generally no reason why I need to inflict that opinion on him or her. My thoughts on someone else's view are not generally their business.

On the other hand, if the discussion turns in a way that makes my views on the subject relevant, I see nothing wrong whith saying what I believe. It is perfectly possible, healthy and rewarding to have respectful discussions with people whom you believe are wrong. It is not inherently disrespectful to say that you think someone is wrong. The point, if it is relevant, can be made respectfully.

It only becomes a problem if one believes (as many apparently do) that it is necessary to be disrespectful when addressing someone who is wrong.

Om mani padme hum
Keith

[viniketa]

It only becomes a problem if one believes (as many apparently do) that it is necessary to be disrespectful when addressing someone who is wrong.

Yes. Then, it can become very problematic...

[Dave The Seeker]

Thank you all for the replies, as usual I have gained more knowledge and understanding.
Padma, as usual thanks.
Keith, I appreciate the input.
Viniketa, thanks for the link.

[SSJ3Gogeta]

I understand that there is some minor differences in the lineages of Buddhism.

Major differences.

[plwk]

What were you expecting dave?
This is an online forum...like all online forums, I never assume that just because someone posts something smart or intelligible that they are even 'Buddhist' unless I have direct confirmation that such and such are so and that too there's no such thing as one free from acceptance or judgement, including myself, save for an Arya ... besides, there that old maxim on one is not punished for not reading something that we don't subscribe to...as an old mod told me once...
Haven't you heard that much of the yadayada and sectarianism exists more online than in real life?
That's why I treasure actual involvement with a real life sangha, even if the distance is daunting, anyday over an online one, unless I really have no choice...

[Dave The Seeker]

What were you expecting dave?

Possibly less ego

This is an online forum...like all online forums, I never assume that just because someone posts something smart or intelligible that they are even 'Buddhist' unless I have direct confirmation that such and such are so and that too there's no such thing as one free from acceptance or judgement, including myself, save for an Arya ...

I just read and ask questions to learn. And I'm also not free from the two

besides, there that old maxim on one is not punished for not reading something that we don't subscribe to...as an old mod told me once...

very true

Haven't you heard that much of the yadayada and sectarianism exists more online than in real life?
That's why I treasure actual involvement with a real life sangha, even if the distance is daunting, anyday over an online one, unless I really have no choice...

I am trying to get to a real life sangha, but with finances and no time off work it is difficult.

Thanks for your input

[PadmaVonSamba]

As someone new to Buddhism, I have thought that we should accept that each is drawn to their own path.
As in which 'school/lineage' they choose. Or even which religion they choose. As I have read, at least they are being taught the proper way to live and treat each other.

I have seen so many posts in which members say things like "this teacher said.........and you are mistaken".

It is true that everyone finds their own path.
It is not true, however, that all paths lead to what would be considered by the buddhist teachings
to be the perfect cessation of suffering.
The history of Buddhism is full of debate,
and of demonstrating why some interpretations can be shown to be misinterpretations.

For the most part, Theravada, Mahyayana and Vajrayana all bring the practitioner to the same essential point,
although there are many details and points of differentiation.
If three people go to the beach, and one walks on the shore and lets the water splash over their feet,
another goes out to waist level and swims around,
and the last one goes scuba diving,
you can't say that one person's experience of the ocean is more or less valid than what someone else experiences
because it's all the same ocean.

If a fourth person stands on the dry sand picking up seashells, they are also having a day at the beach
but it is not the experience of the ocean water. It may be something that the tide has washed up on the shore.

Likewise, a lot of people talk about things like karma, rebirth, merit, emptiness and so on, like picking up shells.
Their experience is valid, but it may not actually be what the teachings say.
Confusion is just as valid of an experience as is wisdom!
Maybe it's just something they read about meditation in a fashion magazine or something.
They are at the beach, and they can see the ocean but they haven't really gotten into the water yet.

So, it may not really be so much a matter of people being judgmental
or an issue of being judgmental vs. being accepting
as it is people trying to clarify misunderstandings and yelling
"hey....the surf is over here!"
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[Dave The Seeker]

Thanks a lot Padma, that is a really good analogy.

As always you've really helped me to see things much more clearly.

[viniketa]

My thanks, too, Padma. What a lovely teaching!

[futerko]

So, it may not really be so much a matter of people being judgmental
or an issue of being judgmental vs. being accepting
as it is people trying to clarify misunderstandings and yelling
"hey....the surf is over here!"

That's easy for you to say in that wetsuit - I'm standing here in my speedos and the water is freezing!

[Dave The Seeker]

[KeithBC]

Confusion is just as valid of an experience as is wisdom!

I like it It was just begging to be quoted.

Om mani padme hum
Keith

[lobster]

People see their ignorance reflected in others
. . . and wisdom originating in their arisings.

By turning this around and aknowledging the wisdom in others
and our innate ignorance, we find . . .
. . . well I am sure somone will tell us . . .