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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:37 am 
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Can everyone just please answer this question as simply as possible?

If I give a billion dollars to a charity to help people meditate and become Buddhists enlightened monks. And if some person that receives the money steals it. Then goes to some remote island to use my money, will I get good karma from that or not? What is your thoughts.

And even if I get some good karma I doubt it would be as good as if the money was not stolen.

Answer simply please.

Love and light!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:29 am 
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If you gave it with good intentions then it's good karma, no matter if they stole it or not.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:34 am 
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As I understand it, karma follows intention. In which case positive karma results from a well-intended action.

I too am very interested to hear what others say about this.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:24 am 
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I agree. Karma follows intention. Once you've made the gift in good faith, any problems that follow cease to be yours. If you donate a pair of shoes to a charity shop and they are bought by someone who wears them while committing a crime, is that anything to do with you? Not really. I suppose you might make the case that, if you made your hypothetical gift with the intention, overt or not, to make yourself look good in the eyes of others or to gain power over people, the theft of your money would have karmic implications. But if your intention is pure it really doesn't matter.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:47 am 
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Nobody knows for sure. Generally karma follows intention. However karma is not an object. So even karma has no fixed identity that we would call good or bad.

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"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:56 am 
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An action has internal and external results. The internal result becomes the basis of karma, the moral causality that is carried on within the mind stream. The external result is not a moral matter, as it is not personal, therefore not karma. That way the karma of giving is completed once the money is handed over in this case.

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"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

"Neither cultivation nor seated meditation — this is the pure Chan of Tathagata."
(Mazu Daoyi, X1321p3b23; tr. Jinhua Jia)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T2076p461b24-26)


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:40 pm 
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Good karma comes from your intentions and action in giving the money. If your intentions are to help people study and practice, then it will be good regardless. What happens or does not happen to the money afterwards, is of no consequence. Karma can't be made or unmade by actions that are not yours. :)

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One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:34 pm 
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dharmagoat wrote:
As I understand it, karma follows intention. In which case positive karma results from a well-intended action.

I too am very interested to hear what others say about this.


The actual circumstances matter. It isn't entirely the intention.

For example, knowingly killing your biological mother is considered worse than thinking you are killing your biological mother, but the victim not actually being your biological mother (for example she might have adopted you, but you were unaware of this). The former results in rebirth in Avici Hell while the latter may not.

The actual result and conditions do influence the ripening of the karma.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:27 pm 
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Huseng wrote:
The actual circumstances matter. It isn't entirely the intention.

For example, knowingly killing your biological mother is considered worse than thinking you are killing your biological mother, but the victim not actually being your biological mother (for example she might have adopted you, but you were unaware of this). The former results in rebirth in Avici Hell while the latter may not.

The actual result and conditions do influence the ripening of the karma.

The more it is conceptualised, the more complicated it becomes.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:52 pm 
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Dear OP

The question itself, though, was conceptualised.

Do the laws of Karma work like the laws of physics?

Sutra? :reading:


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:30 pm 
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Simon wrote:
Sutra? :reading:

Not sure what you're seeking, but here's a start - a listing of Suttas covering kamma/karma: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/search_r ... ght.org%2F

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Now having obtained a precious human body,
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~ Tibetan Book of the Dead


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:28 pm 
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The teachings of the six (or ten) Paramitas say that the other paramitas must be guided by wisdom. This question has been discussed by Gampopa in his Jewel Ornament of Liberation, in the case of Dana/Generosity generosity should be guided by wisdom, you must not be an idiot when practicing giving.
Gampopa and the Mahayana also say that after you have given you should totally cut off any attachment to the gift. Which is difficult for many persons it seems. After you have given your gift, it is not your property anymore! Let it go totally.
All of this affects your karma.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:05 pm 
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Once we have given the money away the deed is done. Karma or merit is already accrued.

Why create more karma ( exhaustible ) instead of merit ( inexhaustible )?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:05 am 
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Bonsai Doug wrote:
Simon wrote:
Sutra? :reading:

Not sure what you're seeking, but here's a start - a listing of Suttas covering kamma/karma: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/search_r ... ght.org%2F


Dear Bonsai Doug,

Many thanks for such a thoughtful and comprehensive reply. Much to contemplate there. I was thinking of The Rice Seedling Sutra, but wanted to check my source and make sure I'd got the correct one. Also, I wasn't sure whether that specific sutra would appeal to the OP. OP might find other sources or - perhaps - commentaries more helpful. I tend to find that certain texts almost jump off the shelf at me, and "feel right" for my current level of understanding/ignorance, whilst others are totally impenetrable. Of course it is always essential to be guided by a teacher. Thank you, again, for helping.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:05 am 
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Karma is not just intention. It is intentional action. The intention is to donate the money. When the money is actually donated, the karma is complete. The consequences, whatever they may be will follow from that completion. Whatever happens after that is a totally separate action, and will produce its own karma for the people who do it.

Om mani padme hum
Keith


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:00 am 
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Karma becomes very potent with the four steps

Intention/Motivation
Action
Completion of Action
rejoicing


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