Is 'Wholesome Conduct' in Sex a good Karma?

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
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Wesley1982
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Is 'Wholesome Conduct' in Sex a good Karma?

Postby Wesley1982 » Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:54 am

Is 'Wholesome Conduct' in Sex a good Karma? thanks.

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Lhug-Pa
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Re: Is 'Wholesome Conduct' in Sex a good Karma?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:14 am

Kalachakra, Pundarika, Je Tsongkhapa, and H.H. the Dalai Lama say that it is.

There are some relevant quotes from H.H. the Dalai Lama that I've posted in the thread about in the Personal Experience subforum.

And it has been said that the Dzogchen view on sex is maybe a little different than the Kalachakra and Anuyoga view; and that the Khandro Nyingthig and the Lama Yangthig and/or Longchen Rabjam's commentary on the latter, explain the way sexuality is applied in Dzogchen.

However I think that somewhere on the Berzin Archives website, H.H. the Dalai Lama compared the way Thigle or Kundalini works in Kalachakra Tantra, to Dzogchen.
Last edited by Lhug-Pa on Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:10 am, edited 6 times in total.

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Quiet Heart
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Re: Is 'Wholesome Conduct' in Sex a good Karma?

Postby Quiet Heart » Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:28 am

Shame on you Shakyamuni for setting the precedent of leaving home.
Did you think it was not there--
in your wife's lovely face
in your baby's laughter?
Did you think you had to go elsewhere (simply) to find it?
from - Judyth Collin
The Layman's Lament
From What Book, 1998, p. 52
Edited by Gary Gach

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Wesley1982
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Re: Is 'Wholesome Conduct' in Sex a good Karma?

Postby Wesley1982 » Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:17 am


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Sönam
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Re: Is 'Wholesome Conduct' in Sex a good Karma?

Postby Sönam » Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:20 am

By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

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Huifeng
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Re: Is 'Wholesome Conduct' in Sex a good Karma?

Postby Huifeng » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:49 am

Though others would argue that sex itself involves some degree of craving for sensory experience, either a defiled or at least not a wholesome mental state. This would be the basic standpoint of Indian Buddhism, up until the (possibly mid or) late medieval period, fairly late in the game.

~~ Huifeng


Simon E.
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Re: Is 'Wholesome Conduct' in Sex a good Karma?

Postby Simon E. » Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:00 am

" My heart's in the Highlands
my heart is not here.
My heart's in the Highlands
chasing the deer."

Robert V.C. Burns.

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Wesley1982
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Re: Is 'Wholesome Conduct' in Sex a good Karma?

Postby Wesley1982 » Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:50 pm

Well, if not for the act of procreation (sex) by your biological parents ~ (you know; mom & dad) - how would you not have been born as a baby?..

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Re: Is 'Wholesome Conduct' in Sex a good Karma?

Postby Huifeng » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:11 am



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Re: Is 'Wholesome Conduct' in Sex a good Karma?

Postby Huifeng » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:14 am



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Dechen Norbu
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Re: Is 'Wholesome Conduct' in Sex a good Karma?

Postby Dechen Norbu » Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:02 am

It's also important to keep in mind that in Vajrayana you fight fire with fire. Sexual practices are not there to cultivate attachment, much less ignoring it.
It's a complex issue. In Vajrayana you need very precise instructions to practice karmamudra and the objective is not sex, but using sensation as a method, and what sensation is more evident than sexual climax? Of course if you don't have desire, then sex becomes impossible. So in Vajrayana you will use that sexual desire and you are specifically instructed not to proceed beyond certain points in meditative stabilization practices so that it doesn't fall asleep - while the seed for desire will remain dormant, not being eliminated. The objective will be cutting attachment by the root. These practices are not for everyone. As I said, they need very precise instructions.
Dzogchen is different, but it's beyond the scope of this thread to explain it. I just wanted to clarify things regarding Vajrayana. You don't do sex because it's OK. It's not unwholesome behavior as long as you follow a few simple rules (that can be summarized in causing no harm).
You do it if you are a lay person, like any other Buddhist without ordination, but it's a mundane thing. You should treat your partner with respect and all that that we know is wholesome and almost goes without saying. But if you feel desire, this is a form of attachment, Vajrayana or not. You can choose to use that desire and work with it or not. If you practice Vajrayana and have a teacher to instruct you in these matters, then it is a powerful practice. If you don't and try, consequences can be extremely dire for your health (especially when you know a little, but have no guidance). So you may have sex and do other practices knowing that desire, as repulsion, will be eradicated even if you don't practice karmamudra. When you solve the problem of ignorance, the rest follows.

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Re: Is 'Wholesome Conduct' in Sex a good Karma?

Postby Wesley1982 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:04 am


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Re: Is 'Wholesome Conduct' in Sex a good Karma?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:24 am

Since this was said in an open webcast and the method referred to is given in an non-restricted book, I'll repost this from another thread (with some editing):


"...since the Vajra Wave of Yantra Yoga is given in a publicly-available book by Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche himself (simply titled Yantra Yoga); I think it's fine to say here that in a recent open webcast teaching he said that if we engage in sexual practices, that if we perform the Vajra Wave afterwards, then we can correct any mistakes we might have made in the practice so that we don't have any problems with our energy (Nadis, Vayus, Prana, Bindu, Chakras, etc.)."

And Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche recommended this even for those who go out and buy books on Hindu or Taoist Sexual Yoga, because he must figure that if people are going to do it anyway, they might as well have some health insurance (Yantra Yoga and the Vajra Wave).

Also, as I'd said in the link I posted in my initial post in this thread, H.H. the Dalai Lama himself has taken it upon himself to give some basic yet somewhat detailed explanations on Karmamudra practice, which shows that there's really no reason to keep it on the down-low so much anymore.

And from the same thread:

"If one chooses the celibate route—then in order to sublimate the powerful energy of sex—looking into some daily Yantra Yoga and/or Kumbhaka or other Pranayama practices, would be a very good idea."

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Dechen Norbu
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Re: Is 'Wholesome Conduct' in Sex a good Karma?

Postby Dechen Norbu » Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:45 am

Yes, it's good to have that in mind. Nevertheless, if you heard his last webcast, you also know he emphasized how important it is for those practicing Tantra to receive detailed instructions about sexual practices. When it comes to Vajrayana, you don't take any chances. The method ChNN recommends is excellent but it won't guarantee you won't have problems. Sometimes we are at the edge of a precipice and it only takes a little to fall. Falling from a precipice or simply falling to the ground have different results. Not knowing the individual circumstances of someone who decides to go yahoo with Vajrayana sexual practices, it's always better to recommend that people should not do them without proper guidance. You can teach first aids to help someone if he has a car crash. But if he was going 100 mi/h it won't do much good. So it's better to play safe. If people go and do it, it's better they have some help. But sometimes even that help may not be enough.

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Re: Is 'Wholesome Conduct' in Sex a good Karma?

Postby Huifeng » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:01 am

Yes, the "Exploring Buddhism" forum is now the entry point for Dzogchen practice, haha! :stirthepot:

~~ Huifeng


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Re: Is 'Wholesome Conduct' in Sex a good Karma?

Postby Wesley1982 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:12 am


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Re: Is 'Wholesome Conduct' in Sex a good Karma?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:15 am

All I can say at this point is if anyone decides to practice Sexual Yoga on their own, at least do your very best to not—as Dechen Norbu said—"go yahoo" (in other words, start out slowly).

And make sure to have Right Intention, and try to learn as much as possible about it from reliable sources such as Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche, H.H. the Dalai Lama, etc. (so in my opinion avoid books and websites like corrupted and/or watered-down versions of the Kama Sutra, or "How to Have 100 "Tantrick" Orgasms in One Day", etc. like the plague).

Nonetheless, as you said Dechen Norbu the best way is always going to be to receive instructions from a qualified Lama. :idea:

Wesley, I searched that book and what came up was a Thomas Cleary book called Practical Taoism. Is it the same book? Maybe I'll see if a large preview of it is up for perusal on Google books. Taoist Alchemy seems to be very interesting. :yinyang: Although it's probably not so easy to find Taoist Masters anymore. But I could be mistaken about that.

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Re: Is 'Wholesome Conduct' in Sex a good Karma?

Postby Spirituality » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:37 pm


Simon E.
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Re: Is 'Wholesome Conduct' in Sex a good Karma?

Postby Simon E. » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:49 pm

" My heart's in the Highlands
my heart is not here.
My heart's in the Highlands
chasing the deer."

Robert V.C. Burns.

Simon E.
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Re: Is 'Wholesome Conduct' in Sex a good Karma?

Postby Simon E. » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:51 pm

" My heart's in the Highlands
my heart is not here.
My heart's in the Highlands
chasing the deer."

Robert V.C. Burns.


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