Karma

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Karma

Postby Norden » Mon May 21, 2012 11:16 pm

Hi all,

So Karma means action. If something a deed looks not very good but the intention is good than the result is good, so intention also plays important role here. Mindfulness also often emphasized by all spiritual teachers. I read somewhere, it says when we wrong someone, the harmful consequences is unavoidable, even in cases where we are unaware of having wronged that person. Another definition is, it is call Karma when you have the intention and you perform the deeds either by speech or body action.

People with mindfulness or awareness will tend to do something bad with awareness too, there are moment when we do something even though we are aware they are not wholesome, in some cases we do it because we have to do it. While other people maybe just careless, without any intention to hurt anyone. Why we practice mindfulness and why people with no intention also have to suffer the consequences?

We know after the Buddha's death, Buddhism splits into 18 sects in total both Mahayana and Theravada. All sects do not have the same definition or understanding of Karma. We can find 'Karma' almost in all Indian spiritual traditions, but they are not the same. So I'm wondering if anyone here, senior brother and sisters can tell me what really Buddha said or taught about this? There is a claim from other spiritual tradition that Buddha's Teaching has been misunderstood by his followers. Thanks guys, I hope all the reply may shed some light of what Karma is exactly.
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Re: Karma

Postby Wesley1982 » Tue May 22, 2012 1:27 am

Good deeds and helping others when they ask you. Doing something for someone, work ethic etc.
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Re: Karma

Postby Bonsai Doug » Tue May 22, 2012 3:37 am

Norden wrote:what really Buddha said or taught about this?

I'm certain this will get many replies, as this seems to be a pretty hot topic.

But as a starter, you could try the Maha Kammavibhanga Sutta: The Great Exposition of Kamma,
(also "Karma") found here: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .nymo.html
Now having obtained a precious human body,
I do not have the luxury of remaining on a distracted path.

~ Tibetan Book of the Dead
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Re: Karma

Postby Norden » Wed May 23, 2012 12:08 am

Bonsai Doug wrote:
Norden wrote:what really Buddha said or taught about this?

I'm certain this will get many replies, as this seems to be a pretty hot topic.

Perhaps, but I don't mean to start a comparison between this tradition with that tradition.

But as a starter, you could try the Maha Kammavibhanga Sutta: The Great Exposition of Kamma,
(also "Karma") found here: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .nymo.html


Thanks for the link, it is very good one. But instead of the cause of being born in heavenly realm or three lower realms, I am still not quite sure what Karma is, maybe anyone has some view? Thanks a lot!
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Re: Karma

Postby justsit » Wed May 23, 2012 12:33 am

You may find the discussion of karma here of interest.
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Re: Karma

Postby Norden » Wed May 23, 2012 2:15 am

justsit wrote:You may find the discussion of karma here of interest.


Thanks for this link.
However, this is referring to my question about Karma: karma only refers to consequences of intentional acts. If someone has no intention whatsoever why there is consequence to be experienced too? And why practising mindfulness, as the more we are not aware the less we suffer from consequences?
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Re: Karma

Postby KeithBC » Wed May 23, 2012 4:34 am

Norden wrote:If someone has no intention whatsoever why there is consequence to be experienced too? And why practising mindfulness, as the more we are not aware the less we suffer from consequences?

Very few acts are devoid of intention. Breathing, perhaps, and other such automatic bodily functions. But even choosing to act mindlessly is an intentional act. Actions performed mindlessly are nevertheless usually performed for a reason, and are therefore intentional.

It is only by paying attention to what our intentions are (in other words, being mindful) that we can eveluate the karmic consequences.

Om mani padme hum
Keith
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Re: Karma

Postby Norden » Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:02 pm

KeithBC wrote:
Norden wrote:If someone has no intention whatsoever why there is consequence to be experienced too? And why practising mindfulness, as the more we are not aware the less we suffer from consequences?

Very few acts are devoid of intention. Breathing, perhaps, and other such automatic bodily functions. But even choosing to act mindlessly is an intentional act. Actions performed mindlessly are nevertheless usually performed for a reason, and are therefore intentional.

It is only by paying attention to what our intentions are (in other words, being mindful) that we can eveluate the karmic consequences.

Om mani padme hum
Keith


What I am talking about is not choosing to be mindless but some people, by nature, their character are more careless, the other perhaps more attentive and careful.
Does this mean, being more a mindful person, his wrong action's consequences different to those who don't have any intention. If action and intention are interconnected in terms of the force of Karma, then it is becoming more confusing.
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Re: Karma

Postby KeithBC » Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:49 pm

Norden wrote:What I am talking about is not choosing to be mindless but some people, by nature, their character are more careless, the other perhaps more attentive and careful.
Does this mean, being more a mindful person, his wrong action's consequences different to those who don't have any intention. If action and intention are interconnected in terms of the force of Karma, then it is becoming more confusing.

What makes it confusing is having been raised in the Judeo-Christian culture in which ethics and morality are based on sets of rules. To encounter an ethical system which is not rule-based is confusing.

The big thing about karma is that is is individual. So generalizing is very difficult to do.

If someone is habitually careless, why are they careless? Are they careless because they have a mental deficiency that prevents them analysing consequences, or do they just not give a s***? The karmic consequences are different in the two cases. Being incapable of analysing consequences is not a choice, and therefore consequences of their actions (good or bad) are not intentional. Someone who just doesn't care about the consequences in choosing not to care is making an intentional decision not to do so. That intention has consequences.

Om mani padme hum
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Re: Karma

Postby Spirituality » Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:07 pm

I had someone shout at me the other day and then excuse herself saying she meant well. Which was clear: she means well in general, but that doesn't mean she was not wrong in the way she expressed herself. From a buddhist perspective she was motivated by disturbing emotions: I suspect general annoyance with me not being what she expected combined with being tired.

I obviously don't know how that works karmically, aside from me quitting that class, however the disturbing emotions are part of the 'motive' of the action. Part of her needed me to change into something I'm not so bad that she needed to shout. I guess one of the 'disturbing emotions' here was ignorance at the way things are: not everybody fits into your predefined boxes. I certainly never fit ;) (obviously my interpretation)

Personally I don't think trying to find the 'right' version of karma will help you any at this stage, probably never. I would recommend the module on karma in the Discovering Buddhism module taught online by the FPMT.
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Re: Karma

Postby Bonsai Doug » Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:14 pm

I know this is over-simplistic, but it kinda makes the point...
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Now having obtained a precious human body,
I do not have the luxury of remaining on a distracted path.

~ Tibetan Book of the Dead
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