YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

Buddhist Romanticism - Dhamma Wheel

Buddhist Romanticism

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
User avatar
Kusala
Posts: 667
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:02 am

Buddhist Romanticism

Postby Kusala » Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:01 am

Hello Dhamma friends. I decided to post this Dhamma talk in response to Dan74's thread "Goldstein, Kornfield and One Buddhism - what's missing?"

http://www.audiodharma.org/talks/audio_player/117.html
Image

"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "

User avatar
Dan74
Posts: 3012
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: Buddhist Romanticism

Postby Dan74 » Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:27 am

WOW!

It's an amazing talk. Very dense (with facts and ideas) and scholarly. I've listened half-way through and have to stop now (to return later).

Thank you for posting it.
_/|\_

User avatar
Kusala
Posts: 667
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:02 am

Re: Buddhist Romanticism

Postby Kusala » Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:19 am

Image

"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "

User avatar
daverupa
Posts: 5980
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: Buddhist Romanticism

Postby daverupa » Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:46 am

Kornfield is described as conveying a very similar approach to the psychology of religion as had Abraham Maslow, that the commonality of religious experience was the significant thing (not the specific explanation of it by the experiencer) and that the sign of it being psychologically healthy was whether an experience allowed for a deeper integration of the self alongside societal beneficence, as opposed to a separating or isolating experience.

Thanissaro asks if using this sort of assumption, alongside a few other Romantic assumptions which form the basis of the talk, does justice to the Dhamma. One example used is the idea of interconnectedness, seen as a good thing in Romanticism but seen as simply one among many contemporary views which the Buddha suggests has nothing to do with the problem of dukkha. "Truths that aren't useful", as it were. It's later specified that any interconnectedness which can be found in the Dhamma has to do with paticcasamuppada, which is the process of dukkha - not sukha, which is basically the Romantic claim.

Another example is that, to a Romantic, this process of improvement is infinite as the path is the goal, whereas to a Buddhist there is a definite goal - nibbana.

Great talk.

:anjali:
:heart:

Jhana4
Posts: 1309
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:20 pm
Location: U.S.A., Northeast

Re: Buddhist Romanticism

Postby Jhana4 » Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:56 pm

Good recording! It makes me wish I had more literature classes in college.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

User avatar
Kusala
Posts: 667
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:02 am

Re: Buddhist Romanticism

Postby Kusala » Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:16 pm

Hello Dhamma friends. Here's an article on Buddhist Romanticism http://www.purifymind.com/BuddhistRomanticism.htm

A brief excerpt:

"Image
Image

"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "

User avatar
Lazy_eye
Posts: 996
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:23 pm
Location: Laurel, MD
Contact:

Re: Buddhist Romanticism

Postby Lazy_eye » Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:07 pm

I just listened to the talk. Great stuff. I think it's very beneficial to trace the geneaology of ideas back to their sources so we can better understand the lay of the land, so to speak, and that's what Ven. Thannisaro does so well here.

Most of us, I think, would agree that his question "but is there more?" is the right one to ask. But it occurred to me, while he was speaking about this, that the question doesn't apply only to "American Buddhism" of the James-Jung-Maslow variety. It could also be asked of Buddhism of the Buddha's variety. Because there is practically no point along the dhammic trajectory at which this question is not valid.

Is Buddhism about practicing generosity? About achieving a fortunate rebirth? Understanding kamma? Leaving home to become a monk? Is it about achieving jhanic bliss? At any of these stages one could ask Ven. Thannisaro's question. So the fact that a given approach to the dhamma leaves something out does not necessarily mean it isn't beneficial to those at a certain level of capability.

We might also not be quick to dismiss the role James et al have played in making the case for religion's continued relevance in the age of science. By the end of the 19th century -- really, by around 1867, when the famous poem "Dover Beach" made it into print -- it was really starting to look as though there was no magisterium left in which religion could claim authority. No religious system, not even Theravada which probably comes closest, can finally compete with scientific rationalism on its own terms. So in order to make a credible apologia, one has to carve out some new area of territory, which is what the psychological approach tries to do.

I felt this problem is hinted at or implied in Venerable Thannisaro's talk but he doesn't quite follow up -- ultimately it has to do with the basis of faith. Obviously someone might have a conversion experience, for whatever reason, and of course advanced practitioners may get to the point where they take the Buddha's authority as a given. But for a lot of beginners who are exploring the dhamma, some kind of "Dharma gate" is indeed necessary.


Return to “Connections to Other Paths”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine