Is there such a thing as almost pure evil?

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Is there such a thing as almost pure evil?

Postby AstralProjectee » Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:02 am

Is there such a thing as almost pure evil? Are there beings of almost pure evil? I saw this show on the discovery channel where this investigator wanted to see what was going on in this haunted house. There was a lot of creepy evil things going on. The investigator opened the door to the basement of the house and at the bottom of the steps was a demon that looked like a man and the man opened his mouth and shot fire out of his mouth and the investigator was scared to death and he shut the door as fast as possible and left as quick as possible. He said he NEVER wants to see anything like that again. He as so shook up by that experience. What the hell is that.

The guy that saw the demon was not a mentalist or a psychic. He was an investigator with equipment. I don't even know if he is visiting haunted houses after that.

If you saw a demon you may or may not die. I think many demons are depressed and have deficiencies that Christians don't know or talk about that makes them unable to fully function and create evil and make havoc.

Thanks.
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Re: Is there such a thing as almost pure evil?

Postby steveb1 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:54 am

I don't think Buddha ever defined any sentient being as pure evil - i.e., Buddha treated all beings with compassion, and from what I've read of Tibetan Buddhism, exorcisms in that school are as much aimed at liberating demons as they are saving the human victims.
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Re: Is there such a thing as almost pure evil?

Postby Anders » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:01 am

I think there is such a thing as someone who appears to be so.

But looking deeper, perhaps deeper than we are capable of ourselves, I don't think it will hold up. At the bottomline, the only reason we are in this game is because of ignorance. If we knew better, we wouldn't be doing this stuff. How can this not be worthy of pity? And in the past, such a person was a good and admirable person, just as he will eventually become at one point in the future. The same way we all have past lifetimes of cruelty and evil on our track record. We all share the burden of Samsara, some more burdened than others, but we've all carried the heavy loads at some point. Thankfully, all things are impermanent!
"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

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Re: Is there such a thing as almost pure evil?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:03 am

No, there is no such thing as pure evil. There is no such thing as evil. There is ignorance, hatred, desire, pride and jealousy and acting out these mental states has outcomes. One of those outcomes is to be born as demon, hell being or spirit, a creature that, like you and me, suffers, but suffers incredibly intensely.
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Re: Is there such a thing as almost pure evil?

Postby plwk » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:20 am

The flip side ... this one on human nature (applicable too for the nature of all sentient beings of the Six Realms) as opined by the late Ven Master Dr Sheng Yen... from a Chinese Mahayana perspective... Pages 52-54
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Re: Is there such a thing as almost pure evil?

Postby White Lotus » Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:49 pm

on a relative level there are opposites... hot cold, good evil, high low, these opposites are called dualities.
i have had the pleasure of meeting a personification of evil... this being was, gentle, kind, sweet, however wherever it goes there is mayhem and destruction, not through its own choice, but simply as a result of what it is. such beings are very rare.

on an absolute level it is seen that dualities are all empty, this however takes a while to see. when you know that everything is emptiness except the non reflecting mind or no mind (which does not exist and yet there is still perception).

most people see everything as ''real'', but infact reality is not so simple. it will be said to you that there is no evil. this is the view of someone who has the dharma eye... but even he will experience the apparent effects of the duality of good and evil.

there is infact no one typing this message! this sounds crazy, but when you have the dharma eye you will know what i mean. if i know that no one is typing this message then it is easy for me to say that there is no evil, nor good. however when i am suffering its harder to say this and believe it!

best wishes, Tom.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
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Re: Is there such a thing as almost pure evil?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

White Lotus wrote:on a relative level there are opposites... hot cold, good evil, high low, these opposites are called dualities.
i have had the pleasure of meeting a personification of evil... this being was, gentle, kind, sweet, however wherever it goes there is mayhem and destruction, not through its own choice, but simply as a result of what it is. such beings are very rare.
In Buddhism there is no evil at the relative level either. There are wholesome and unwholesome actions, not good and bad actions. Good and bad or good and evil presuppose intrinsic moral properties. Killing is not evil (for example). It is (normally considered) an unwholesome activity that will have varying consequences depending on the intention, the force/strength of the action, on whether somebody rejoices or feels remorse about the action, etc...

There is pleasant or painful, joy or suffering, etc... but not good and evil.

Anger, desire, ignorance, jealousy, pride are not evil. They are merely mental states that (in the vast majority of circumstances) lead to suffering.

That is Dharma.
i have had the pleasure of meeting a personification of evil... this being was, gentle, kind, sweet, however wherever it goes there is mayhem and destruction, not through its own choice, but simply as a result of what it is. such beings are very rare.
This is just the outcome of karma. It has nothing to do with evil.
:namaste:
Last edited by Sherab Dorje on Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Meditation and conduct become delusion,
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One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
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Re: Is there such a thing as almost pure evil?

Postby treehuggingoctopus » Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:11 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:There is pleasant or painful, joy or suffering, etc... but not good and evil.


And Buddhas be thanked for that. There are few concepts as useless, puerile, misleading and infinitely dangerous as the good and evil thing.
. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .
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Re: Is there such a thing as almost pure evil?

Postby Nemo » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:34 am

99+% of evil is banal. Many "demons" are misunderstood and can be tamed simply by love and attention. That being said,...

There are things so evil in this world they would give you unshakable faith in the divine. Such darkness is rare but some sentient being revel in the most evil actions they can imagine. There have even been times when they have formed groups of like minded individuals. If you cross paths with them keep a low profile. To be that close to death is not a pleasant experience.
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Re: Is there such a thing as almost pure evil?

Postby Quiet Heart » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:26 am

AstralProjectee wrote:Is there such a thing as almost pure evil? Are there beings of almost pure evil? I saw this show on the discovery channel where this investigator wanted to see what was going on in this haunted house. There was a lot of creepy evil things going on. The investigator opened the door to the basement of the house and at the bottom of the steps was a demon that looked like a man and the man opened his mouth and shot fire out of his mouth and the investigator was scared to death and he shut the door as fast as possible and left as quick as possible. He said he NEVER wants to see anything like that again. He as so shook up by that experience. What the hell is that.

The guy that saw the demon was not a mentalist or a psychic. He was an investigator with equipment. I don't even know if he is visiting haunted houses after that.

If you saw a demon you may or may not die. I think many demons are depressed and have deficiencies that Christians don't know or talk about that makes them unable to fully function and create evil and make havoc.

Thanks.

===============================
:smile:
Wow, wouldnt that be a show to see!
Lucky they just happened to have the cameras ready and managed to film that demon appearing.
Oh, I'm sorry, they didn't manage to get that part on film you say?
Somehow, I imagine that they DIDN'T film that.

Just my opinion, there MAY be demons and such...but I've never seen on "manifest" itself like that.
I believe all "demons" (and "saints" also )exist only in the minds of sentient beings as illusions or delusions....mistaken perceptions of such human frailities as fear, lust, greed, and so on.
Like that "demon" called Greed that makes a banker happily willing to foreclose and evict a family with young children into the streets even when that banker knows that foreclosure is a product of a deliberate scam (robo-signing...look the definition up) for a little more profit and the ownership of a house the bank can't sell anyhow.
That's a bad "demon"....and it exists only in the mind of that banker.

Those are the kinds of "demons" that really worry me.
:smile:

P.S.
gregkavarnos: Nice graphics in your post!
Shame on you Shakyamuni for setting the precedent of leaving home.
Did you think it was not there--
in your wife's lovely face
in your baby's laughter?
Did you think you had to go elsewhere (simply) to find it?
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The Layman's Lament
From What Book, 1998, p. 52
Edited by Gary Gach
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Re: Is there such a thing as almost pure evil?

Postby Takoda » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:24 am

gregkavarnos wrote:In Buddhism there is no evil at the relative level either. There are wholesome and unwholesome actions, not good and bad actions. Good and bad or good and evil presuppose intrinsic moral properties. Killing is not evil (for example). It is (normally considered) an unwholesome activity that will have varying consequences depending on the intention, the force/strength of the action, on whether somebody rejoices or feels remorse about the action, etc...


A very interesting comment. I never thought of this before in these terms and I can definitely see your point.

Kind regards

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Re: Is there such a thing as almost pure evil?

Postby asunthatneversets » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:31 am

gregkavarnos wrote:No, there is no such thing as pure evil. There is no such thing as evil. There is ignorance, hatred, desire, pride and jealousy and acting out these mental states has outcomes.


I agree, no evil... Just ignorance.
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Re: Is there such a thing as almost pure evil?

Postby catmoon » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:33 am

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Sergeant Schultz knew everything there was to know.
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Re: Is there such a thing as almost pure evil?

Postby Nighthawk » Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:49 am

Even the evilest of all evil can become Buddhas and that includes evil hungry ghosts (just as they are)

http://amida-ji-retreat-temple-romania. ... ungry.html
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Re: Is there such a thing as almost pure evil?

Postby Karma Sherab » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:22 am

This is interesting.

It seems though that there are a lot of cultural issues hiding behind the concept of evil.

If anyone is interested it is woth checking out the work of Dr. Philip Zimbardo for evil caused by humans. Zimbardo does not belive there are evil humans.

Now, the dominant Judeo Christian God and devil, historically was born out of Manichaeism and neither the old testament or the gospels mention a unified force of evil.

Satan as we know satan, evolved much later as ideas born of Manichaeism became adopted by Christianity.
The biblical texts that are not considered apochryphia (apochryphia is where a lot of christan ideas of the devil etc actually come from) only refers to "evil spirits" much as in Budhism and Asian religions in general.

A distinct illustration of this is in horror movies. Westyern Horror is all about the devil.

Asian (in particular Japanese and Korean) horror is about some unspeakable evil having been done to someone and some kind of evil spirit is born of that and does sensless evil to extract revenge from the world pretty well in general.

As a Buddhist I tend to go along with the Asian view as pure evil is a contradiction in itself as no being incarnate or disincaarnate would want evil upon itself and there lies the heart of the contradiction. It is a major flaw which suggests there can be no pure evil, as I see it at least.

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Re: Is there such a thing as almost pure evil?

Postby White Lotus » Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:30 pm

dear Gregkarvarnos, it is not the buddhist view that there is or is not evil, buddhism will not be trapped in this riddle, nor in any view. things are just so. suchness means that reality is just as it is (drop even that). our views on reality... vis a vis good and evil are merely attempts to simplify the impossible.

if you find it unhelpful to talk of evil, then so it is. i found it helpful, nonetheless i am not attached to my label ''evil'' because i realise that reality is more complex.

are we not beginning to discuss something that is beyond discussion. i have used the label evil, i could have used the label dysfunctional or some other label had i chosen. it is comforting to think that there is no evil. for some this will be helpful but it is still a view and inaccurate. likewise to speak of evil is inaccurate. using language we cannot avoid inaccuracy.

i am beginning to sense here a very very sticky debate with no solution other than taking the left hand or the right...

my understanding tells me that we are falling into the realm of sticky ''views'' and a view will never be shared by everyone simply because nature is more complex than our understanding.

i will not be trapped by philosophy's misdirection. all i can say is ''see nature'' and drop all views, even the view that we cant know anything about anything.

best wishes, Tom.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
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Re: Is there such a thing as almost pure evil?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:16 pm

For somebody that believes that words cannot express truth you sure "talk" alot!
For somebody that is so against "views" you sure are good at propounding them.
For somebody that claims in their signature not to know anything you sound very sure of yourself.

When you say "see nature" you mean something like this?

panda.jpg
panda.jpg (10.18 KiB) Viewed 326 times

Or do you prefer it without the panda?
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Is there such a thing as almost pure evil?

Postby LastLegend » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:30 pm

AstralProjectee wrote:Is there such a thing as almost pure evil? Are there beings of almost pure evil? I saw this show on the discovery channel where this investigator wanted to see what was going on in this haunted house. There was a lot of creepy evil things going on. The investigator opened the door to the basement of the house and at the bottom of the steps was a demon that looked like a man and the man opened his mouth and shot fire out of his mouth and the investigator was scared to death and he shut the door as fast as possible and left as quick as possible. He said he NEVER wants to see anything like that again. He as so shook up by that experience. What the hell is that.

The guy that saw the demon was not a mentalist or a psychic. He was an investigator with equipment. I don't even know if he is visiting haunted houses after that.

If you saw a demon you may or may not die. I think many demons are depressed and have deficiencies that Christians don't know or talk about that makes them unable to fully function and create evil and make havoc.

Thanks.


Yes, there is a pure evil. But does not mean evil is permanent rather it is a habit.
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NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)
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Re: Is there such a thing as almost pure evil?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:52 pm

Dhp IX PTS: Dhp 116-128
Papavagga: Evil
translated from the Pali by Acharya Buddharakkhita
© 1996–2012

116. Hasten to do good; restrain your mind from evil. He who is slow in doing good, his mind delights in evil.

117. Should a person commit evil, let him not do it again and again. Let him not find pleasure therein, for painful is the accumulation of evil.

118. Should a person do good, let him do it again and again. Let him find pleasure therein, for blissful is the accumulation of good.

119. It may be well with the evil-doer as long as the evil ripens not. But when it does ripen, then the evil-doer sees (the painful results of) his evil deeds.

120. It may be ill with the doer of good as long as the good ripens not. But when it does ripen, then the doer of good sees (the pleasant results of) his good deeds.

121. Think not lightly of evil, saying, "It will not come to me." Drop by drop is the water pot filled. Likewise, the fool, gathering it little by little, fills himself with evil.

122. Think not lightly of good, saying, "It will not come to me." Drop by drop is the water pot filled. Likewise, the wise man, gathering it little by little, fills himself with good.

123. Just as a trader with a small escort and great wealth would avoid a perilous route, or just as one desiring to live avoids poison, even so should one shun evil.

124. If on the hand there is no wound, one may carry even poison in it. Poison does not affect one who is free from wounds. For him who does no evil, there is no ill.

125. Like fine dust thrown against the wind, evil falls back upon that fool who offends an inoffensive, pure and guiltless man.

126. Some are born in the womb; the wicked are born in hell; the devout go to heaven; the stainless pass into Nibbana.

127. Neither in the sky nor in mid-ocean, nor by entering into mountain clefts, nowhere in the world is there a place where one may escape from the results of evil deeds.

128. Neither in the sky nor in mid-ocean, nor by entering into mountain clefts, nowhere in the world is there a place where one will not be overcome by death.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .budd.html
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Is there such a thing as almost pure evil?

Postby Karma Sherab » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:31 pm

Apropos to Greg's quote, the reference is never to an evil person but to evil as an action, thought etc or possibly an outcome.

We humans tend to Anthropomorphise most of what we can't understand. Maybe we need to, to be able to work with the great unknown - the great mystery that makes up the world as we know it. I am not suggesting that it is wrong to do this. However we should distinguish between the "finger pointing at the moon, and the moon itself"

Many years ago I had a thought that in the middle-ages people believed that an evil (say for example small pox) is caused by demons, unclean spirits etc which are not visible or perceivable to us except by their actions or rather effects.

Nowadays, however, while we think we are so far beyond such superstition, we find most people believe that evil (small pox) is caused by a virus - again invisible, imperceptible except by the effects of the virus - illness.

Here we are not talking abour Lamas, priests or scientists psychics etc. The average person is still caught in superstition which means really that they are victims of a world of unknowns and the remediesmedicines - be they drugs, rituals or whatever that we pay those we believe capable to deal with.

Whether it is a spirit or virus or even if really they are the one and the same is academic while we still suffer from the effects (i.e. small pox).

To really go any deaper we would have to define "pure evil" not as examples but a definition of what evil is. I think if we could, such definitions would not hold under analysis of logic. That does not however exclude the possibility that there are discarnate evil spirits that may be very very powerful compared to us mere mortals. To an Impala a Lion is evil. However where is the evil in an absolute sense? The lion is either feeding itself for survival or its pride or cubs etc. So the evil is relative and sounds an awful lot like "one man's terrorist is another man's hero". These are not absolutes. :shrug:
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