nihilism

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nihilism

Postby omnifriend » Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:32 am

if we let go of craving and aversion all the time, isnt that nihilism? i dont understand. is it to be understood intellectually? please no talks on how pleasure is the path right now, just looking for bare bones basic buddhism 101.
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Re: nihilism

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:49 am

the point isn't to force yourself to stop wanting stuff. You should enjoy life.
Have a nice meal. Watch a favorite movie. go fall in love.
I crave oxygen constantly, even without realizing it.

What the Buddha taught was that
when we search for happiness in things which are composites
meaning that they temporarily come about because of causes
and then fall apart because of causes,
likewise, our happiness will only be temporary.
this is experienced as being unsatisfactory (dukkha).

it other words, when you look for happiness in things that don't last,
the happiness you get from them won't last either.
people who do not understand this suffer from the fact that everything is always changing.

People cling to things or are adverse to things, thinking that by doing so they will be happy
and they might be happy for a little while but it doesn't last.

So, that is what is meant by letting go of craving and aversion.
It's not that you can't like some things and dislike other things.
It means having the mistaken view that liking and disliking things is the cause of happiness (peace of mind).
.
.
.
Last edited by PadmaVonSamba on Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:54 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: nihilism

Postby steveb1 » Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:52 am

My flawed understanding = there is a "middle path" between opposites like clinging and aversion. Clinging/aversion were part of the "fire" that was quenched by the "coolness" of Buddha's enlightenment. Dropping clinging/aversion might be nihilistic in a philosophical sense, I don't know. But no one was more alive and present than Buddha, so I don't think he himself would describe his outlook as nihilistic. Also, after rejecting desire and manipulation, he went on to say that there do exist "righ desire" and "right action". So if we are talking about Buddha's mind and experience - no, I don't think he was a nihilist.
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Re: nihilism

Postby omnifriend » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:25 am

i researched wikipediea and it says chanda is wholesome desire, like for well being. thank you.
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Re: nihilism

Postby tobes » Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:16 am

PadmaVonSamba wrote:the point isn't to force yourself to stop wanting stuff. You should enjoy life.
Have a nice meal. Watch a favorite movie. go fall in love.
I crave oxygen constantly, even without realizing it.

What the Buddha taught was that
when we search for happiness in things which are composites
meaning that they temporarily come about because of causes
and then fall apart because of causes,
likewise, our happiness will only be temporary.
this is experienced as being unsatisfactory (dukkha).

it other words, when you look for happiness in things that don't last,
the happiness you get from them won't last either.
people who do not understand this suffer from the fact that everything is always changing.

People cling to things or are adverse to things, thinking that by doing so they will be happy
and they might be happy for a little while but it doesn't last.

So, that is what is meant by letting go of craving and aversion.
It's not that you can't like some things and dislike other things.
It means having the mistaken view that liking and disliking things is the cause of happiness (peace of mind).
.
.
.


Indeed, but you're missing the critical part here: attaining the unconditioned (i.e. nirvana) means that there is a potential happiness which does not disappear - because it is not dependent upon composite, transient things.

In the Pali Suttas, these two things (duhkah stemming from transient objects and suhkah steming from non-transient nirvana) are constantly juxtaposed - pleasure gained from transient objects is defined as duhkah not because eating good brie is considered unpleasant, but only because the satisfaction does not last. It doesn't really make sense without reference to a pleasure/happiness which does last. That is, the enduring happiness of nirvana is the formal basis by which to define transient happiness as suffering.

:anjali:
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Re: nihilism

Postby TenzinDorje » Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:37 am

omnifriend wrote:if we let go of craving and aversion all the time, isnt that nihilism? i dont understand. is it to be understood intellectually? please no talks on how pleasure is the path right now, just looking for bare bones basic buddhism 101.


Great thread! I have found the writings of Thinley Norbu to be of great help regarding this topic. Best, TD.
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Re: nihilism

Postby ngodrup » Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:57 pm

Indeed. The denial of intangible wisdom phenomena.
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Re: nihilism

Postby Malcolm » Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:01 pm

ngodrup wrote:Indeed. The denial of intangible wisdom phenomena.



Mt. Meru is not an intangible wisdom phenomenon.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: nihilism

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:09 pm

tobes wrote:
PadmaVonSamba wrote:the point isn't to force yourself to stop wanting stuff. You should enjoy life.
Have a nice meal. Watch a favorite movie. go fall in love.
I crave oxygen constantly, even without realizing it.

What the Buddha taught was that
when we search for happiness in things which are composites
meaning that they temporarily come about because of causes
and then fall apart because of causes,
likewise, our happiness will only be temporary.
this is experienced as being unsatisfactory (dukkha).

it other words, when you look for happiness in things that don't last,
the happiness you get from them won't last either.
people who do not understand this suffer from the fact that everything is always changing.

People cling to things or are adverse to things, thinking that by doing so they will be happy
and they might be happy for a little while but it doesn't last.

So, that is what is meant by letting go of craving and aversion.
It's not that you can't like some things and dislike other things.
It means having the mistaken view that liking and disliking things is the cause of happiness (peace of mind).
.
.
.


Indeed, but you're missing the critical part here: attaining the unconditioned (i.e. nirvana) means that there is a potential happiness which does not disappear - because it is not dependent upon composite, transient things.

In the Pali Suttas, these two things (duhkah stemming from transient objects and suhkah steming from non-transient nirvana) are constantly juxtaposed - pleasure gained from transient objects is defined as duhkah not because eating good brie is considered unpleasant, but only because the satisfaction does not last. It doesn't really make sense without reference to a pleasure/happiness which does last. That is, the enduring happiness of nirvana is the formal basis by which to define transient happiness as suffering.

:anjali:

I was too lazy to go into that.
:zzz:
Thank you.
Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.
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Re: nihilism

Postby muni » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:33 am

omnifriend wrote:if we let go of craving and aversion all the time, isnt that nihilism? i dont understand. is it to be understood intellectually? please no talks on how pleasure is the path right now, just looking for bare bones basic buddhism 101.



Tilopa to Naropa: Son perceptions don't bind, clinging does. It is not outer objects that bind us, but internal clinging that entangles us.
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Re: nihilism

Postby asunthatneversets » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:12 am

omnifriend wrote:if we let go of craving and aversion all the time, isnt that nihilism? i dont understand. is it to be understood intellectually? please no talks on how pleasure is the path right now, just looking for bare bones basic buddhism 101.


Don't abandon craving/aversion, for that is merely an aversion to craving/aversion due to craving what you believe their absence may reveal. Instead seek to intuitively understand that where craving and aversion arise... you arise, and where craving and aversion are not... you are not.

Likewise nihilism is attachment, don't abandon attachment(or it's opposite: aversion), for that would be an aversion to attachment/aversion due to attaching to what you believe their absence may reveal. Instead seek to intuitively understand that where attachment arises... you arise, and where attachment is not... you are not.
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