Dharma Wheel on Dharma Wheel....

Whether you're exploring Buddhism for the first time or you're already on the path, feel free to ask questions of any kind here.

Re: Dharma Wheel on Dharma Wheel....

Postby Dronma » Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:41 pm

oldbob wrote:Just a thought:

Suggested reading. I think that this is a great book to help us "Dialogue."

http://www.amazon.com/Dialogue-Routledg ... 173&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Dialogue-Routledg ... 0415336414

Kindness matters.

ob



I found this pdf:
http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/chaos-complexity....../dialogue.pdf
I hope it is the one you suggest, oldbob! :smile:

PS. By the way, dialogue is a compound Greek word (dialogos) which means "through speech".
"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
~ Padmasambhava ~
User avatar
Dronma
 
Posts: 715
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:29 pm
Location: Athens - GR

Re: Dharma Wheel on Dharma Wheel....

Postby oldbob » Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:45 pm

Dronma wrote:
oldbob wrote:Just a thought:

Suggested reading. I think that this is a great book to help us "Dialogue."

http://www.amazon.com/Dialogue-Routledg ... 173&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Dialogue-Routledg ... 0415336414

Kindness matters.

ob



I found this pdf:
http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/chaos-complexity....../dialogue.pdf


I hope it is the one you suggest, oldbob! :smile:

PS. By the way, dialogue is a compound Greek word (dialogos) which means "through speech".


That's it! :twothumbsup: Though this version is hard to digest, in one gulp, without chapter headings. You might want to parse it, and make your own headings, as you read it.

Maybe the Administrators and GMs might read, and if appropriate, consider how to make it sticky somewhere.

"However, if we can really communicate, then we will have fellowship, participation, friendship, love, growing
and growing. That would be the way.
And perhaps in dialogue, when we have this very high energy of coherence, it might bring us beyond just being
a group that could solve social problems. Possibly it could make a new change in the individual and a change in the
relation to the cosmic. Such an energy has been called 'communication'. It is a kind of participation. The early Christians
had a Greek word koinonia, the root of which means 'to participate' - the idea of partaking of the whole and taking part in
it; not merely the whole group, but the whole .
This, then, is more or less an outline of what I mean by 'dialogue'."

Best, ob
Last edited by oldbob on Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
oldbob
 
Posts: 534
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 8:19 am

Re: Nakedness

Postby Sönam » Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:48 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sönam wrote:
Malcolm wrote:Hi Sonam:

While what you say is true, in general Dzogchen is not "secret"; ChNN also regularly reminds people that Dzogchen practices are not to be shared with people who do not have the proper transmission. "Secret" and samaya are different. "Secret" means that no one should know. Samaya means that you can discuss with people who have same transmission. "rgya rgya rgya" means that you should maintain the samaya of body, of speech, and of mind with regard to the teachings. It just means to take care to not share them with people who are not interested, to not think to do so, speak about them, or show them with your body.

̆But "samaya" does not mean "secret" -- it comes from two words "sam + yama" -- it really means "keeping perfect discipline".

M


Thank you for precision ... also I don't think I have really made such a mistake. I don't think that to considere my short answer to someone having followed the concerned teachings could be considered as a failure of my samaya. Anyway I will try to be more attentive next time.


Sönam


Hi Sonam:

I was not criticizing you -- I was trying to bring some clarity to the issue of "secret" as opposed to what is appropriate to share. I think in general people in Dzogchen confuse the idea with "secret" with samaya. There is very little in Dzogchgen that is "secret" unlike tantric practices. There are many things in Vajrayāna that are secret in a concrete way. But it is not like that in Dzogchen. So we are in broad agreement. I just wanted to clarify that while Dzogchen is not secret, we still have samaya not to share things with people who are not interested.

M


There is no problem Malcom, and for having practiced you for some 10 years now, I'm fully confident ... and it's very clear.

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
User avatar
Sönam
 
Posts: 1998
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:11 pm
Location: France

Re: Dharma Wheel on Dharma Wheel....

Postby Dronma » Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:42 am

oldbob wrote:
That's it! :twothumbsup: Though this version is hard to digest, in one gulp, without chapter headings. You might want to parse it, and make your own headings, as you read it.


Thanks! I can digest many things, if I like.... :mrgreen:

oldbob wrote:Maybe the Administrators and GMs might read, and if appropriate, consider how to make it sticky somewhere.

"However, if we can really communicate, then we will have fellowship, participation, friendship, love, growing
and growing. That would be the way.
And perhaps in dialogue, when we have this very high energy of coherence, it might bring us beyond just being
a group that could solve social problems. Possibly it could make a new change in the individual and a change in the
relation to the cosmic. Such an energy has been called 'communication'. It is a kind of participation. The early Christians
had a Greek word koinonia, the root of which means 'to participate' - the idea of partaking of the whole and taking part in it; not merely the whole group, but the whole .
This, then, is more or less an outline of what I mean by 'dialogue'."

Best, ob


About the term "koinonia", one of the meanings is "to participate". Also it means "society", "communication", "connection", "communion" etc. I think that the meaning is very closed (if not the same) to what ChNN Rinpoche recommends about our Community, i.e. the Dzogchen Community. :smile:
"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
~ Padmasambhava ~
User avatar
Dronma
 
Posts: 715
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:29 pm
Location: Athens - GR

Re: Dharma Wheel on Dharma Wheel....

Postby oldbob » Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:36 pm

Dear Dharma Wheel,

I am reposting this here because we do not have a tabs function for posting or searching, multi-tab posts.

Best, ob

zangskar wrote:

Blue Garuda wrote:Yet another reason to have a DC thread for beginners as a 'sticky' with all this basic info on it. Maybe Bon Dzogchen schools could do the same. In that way a beginner could quickly read the information, access suitable links to info , membership and webcasts and subsequently examine deeper issues.

Only Mods can make a thread a 'sticky' so it stays at the top of the Dzogchen section. Recently we've had this 'beginners' thread which is starting to get into the old debate about preliminaries, and another where the discussion ended up about the financial management of DC.

If people don't mind asnwering the same questions and going round in circles that's fine, but there is a simple solution IMHO.


Yes, imagine if this was a yoga discussion forum, and every time someone asks "what is yoga? how do I start?" you get students from n different yoga schools arguing against each other. :)

As a casual reader of this forum, I would humbly suggest a F.A.Q. be made, which could provide brief descriptions of the views of different schools / gurus / lineages, and perhaps an acknowledgement that the term "Dzogchen" is - and will be - used by different schools to describe practices that of course have some common denominators but are not identical..
The F.A.Q. could make explicit what are common elements, and what are differences. And since this forum is full of enthusiastic people with lots of knowledge it should be easy to assemble one (maybe just by copy-paste of parts of old posts).

Best wishes
Lars



Dear Lars all and All,

:good:

This is the key point!

But the devil is in the details.

If the Dzogchen FAQ (or the DC FAQ) is written by someone who has a political ax to grind, then it will chop the heads of other viewpoints. For example if a Norbuista is on the "board" of DW then they might wield their editorial ax to remove a post, or redirect / Lock a thread that they do not agree with. While I am quite sure this has never happened on DW, I would suggest that acknowledged Norbuista's, or any "ista," recuse themselves from any editorial decisions that could give the appearance of partiality. Perhaps there needs to be a trusted advisory panel that editorial decisions could be appealed to. Perhaps an over-site editorial panel of neutral :smile: Buddhist academics (emeritus and active) could serve this function. Perhaps they would have a broad view and readily correct themselves if anyone got too far off the reservation.

Perhaps we can start a thread called candidates for a Dzogchen FAQ board of advisors.

Perhaps we can start a thread called candidates for a DC FAQ board of advisors.

I would propose ChNNR (please to remember that he is a retired professor, and is not partial), Jeffery Hopkins, Alexander (Robert) Thurman, Anne Klein, Donatella Rossi and Janet Gyatso for both boards.

Perhaps after collecting all nominations, then an academic from the DW board could approach these individuals to inquire if they would be willing to participate.

Any thoughts?

May the Dzogchen Masters live long, in good health and with success in all things.

Best, ob
oldbob
 
Posts: 534
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 8:19 am

Re: Dharma Wheel on Dharma Wheel....

Postby purple rose » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:53 pm

oldbob,

Please do not post the same post in more than one topic/thread/forum. You have already posted your part of the above in another thread (and this is not the only time you have posted the same post in more than one place) viewtopic.php?f=48&t=8879&p=111591#p111533 if you want to draw attention to any post you write just paste a link.

Regards,
purple rose
 
Posts: 3996
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:59 am

Re: Dharma Wheel on Dharma Wheel....

Postby Blue Garuda » Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:02 pm

Tara wrote:oldbob,

Please do not post the same post in more than one topic/thread/forum. You have already posted your part of the above in another thread (and this is not the only time you have posted the same post in more than one place) http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f= ... 91#p111533 if you want to draw attention to any post you write just paste a link.

Regards,


An elegant solution has been provided in the Dzogchen sub-forum. Thanks. :)
Left
Blue Garuda
 
Posts: 1967
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:23 pm

Previous

Return to Exploring Buddhism

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 9 guests

>