How to spot Heretical teachings

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How to spot Heretical teachings

Postby Thug4lyfe » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:22 am

Here is a list I've translated from a Chinese book on how to differentiate between Buddhist teachings and heretical teachings:

Buddhism
Disciples takes refuge under the triple gem that’s Buddha, Dharma and Sangha. Have faith and reverence.

Heretics
Have no doctrines, theories and practices of their own, Plagiarizes from the triple Gem to cover their organization to welcome the masses.

Buddhism
Disciples of the Buddha take the precepts as their teacher, take refuge with the triple gem, have the right view and reasoning, observe their own actions, subdue their defiled thoughts, purify themselves.

Heretics
Highly cultivated individuals do not need to worry about their mundane actions. Honour themselves with the title: "Enter the evil ground to save all sentient beings". Hence they constantly travel through places of passion and lust, wallow in sensual pleasures, hence they cannot untangle themselves, how can they hope to liberate sentient beings?

Buddhism
Disciples of the Buddha are taught to use wisdom to differentiate between wholesome and unwholesome. To understand that all gains and losses, physical handicaps and deformities, all wealth and poverty, come to being due to causes and conditions. Hence one should not be arrogant or complain, instead they will be unattached to life and death, not attached to greed and fame.

Heretics
Heretical masters claim they have the foremost wisdom. Encourages wealth, materialism, romantic affairs, and many other means to lure sentient beings. Claiming they can gain great benefits. But in actual fact they are deeply entangled within the five desires. They cannot even liberate themselves even at death.

Buddhism
Teaches sentient beings to uncover their intrinsic right views and right speech. Understand cause and effect to remove attachments. Contemplate to still body and mind, hence remove and purify all mental afflictions and vexation. Face hardship and challenges willingly, accept all conditions, becomes carefree.

Heretics
Uses mantras to enable disciples to reach meditative concentration. While in this concentration there are no thoughts, hence one loses themselves and increases ignorance and delusions. After come out the meditative state, they will discover their afflictions and suffering are still present, hence deluding themselves and others.

Buddhism
Sakyamuni Buddha did not teach his disciples to flaunt supernatural powers. In the Dirghagama Sutra, chapter 16 says: “I teach my disciples to cease and contemplate the way within stillness, when progress is made, it will be stored accordingly, when retrogression occurs, it will reveal it’self.”

Heretics
Heretical masters claims they are real Buddhas and have great powers, can create wealth and cease poverty. Further claims they have achieved emptiness, hence can indulge in sensual desires with no worries, can enable followers to achieve buddhahood without having to uphold precepts.
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Re: How to spot Heretical teachings

Postby mint » Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:44 pm

"I have carefully examined what the word heretic means, and I cannot make it mean more than this: a heretic is a man with whom you disagree."
Sebastian Castellio (1515 - 1563)
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Re: How to spot Heretical teachings

Postby edearl » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:14 pm

mint wrote:"I have carefully examined what the word heretic means, and I cannot make it mean more than this: a heretic is a man with whom you disagree."
Sebastian Castellio (1515 - 1563)

True, but during the middle ages, people labeled by the Catholic Church as heretics were tortured and killed, often burned to death. Thus, saying, "You are a heretic," connotes more than saying, "I disagree with you." I don't believe Food_Eatah meant to imply anyone should be tortured and killed, but that image flashed in my mind.
HHDL: "My confidence in venturing into science lies in my basic belief that as in science so in Buddhism, understanding the nature of reality is pursued by means of critical investigation: if scientific analysis were conclusively to demonstrate certain claims in Buddhism to be false, then we must accept the findings of science and abandon those claims."
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Re: How to spot Heretical teachings

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:18 pm

Oh goody another excuse to talk about rebirth and karma.

Kidding, I'm kidding ...
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Re: How to spot Heretical teachings

Postby deepbluehum » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:20 pm

In Asia, heretics amass huge followings and accumulate billions of dollars. Buddhists don't kill heretics.
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Re: How to spot Heretical teachings

Postby deepbluehum » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:23 pm

This is the kind of diatribe that had Buddhists calling dzogchenpas heretics. A dzogchenpa basically fits most of these definitions of heretic. But Dzogchen is none other than the highest path.
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Re: How to spot Heretical teachings

Postby edearl » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:33 pm

deepbluehum wrote:In Asia, heretics amass huge followings and accumulate billions of dollars. Buddhists don't kill heretics.

Why do they accumulate $ billions? I know, Buddhists are non-violent.
HHDL: "My confidence in venturing into science lies in my basic belief that as in science so in Buddhism, understanding the nature of reality is pursued by means of critical investigation: if scientific analysis were conclusively to demonstrate certain claims in Buddhism to be false, then we must accept the findings of science and abandon those claims."
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Re: How to spot Heretical teachings

Postby catmoon » Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:54 am

There is a much simpler way to find a heretic. You tie tie them up with rope and toss them into a lake. Heretics float.
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Re: How to spot Heretical teachings

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:52 am

You liar! No they don't, they sink!

I believe that you are a (sinking) heretic, masquerading as a (floating) Buddhist, trying to get us (floating) Buddhists killed through your lies and misinformation!

Tirthika!
http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Tirthika

Throw him in the water, you'll see that I am telling the truth!
:namaste:

PS Anybody with half a Tathagatagarbha knows that dzogchenpas ARE heretics and most definitely sink when tied in chains and thrown into deep water.
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One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
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Re: How to spot Heretical teachings

Postby catmoon » Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:09 am

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Re: How to spot Heretical teachings

Postby Sönam » Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:59 am

gregkavarnos wrote:PS Anybody with half a Tathagatagarbha knows that dzogchenpas ARE heretics and most definitely sink when tied in chains and thrown into deep water.


a variation consists to throw them in fire ... they don't burn

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Re: How to spot Heretical teachings

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:14 pm

heresy%20cartoon.gif
heresy%20cartoon.gif (40.79 KiB) Viewed 850 times
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: How to spot Heretical teachings

Postby edearl » Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:53 pm

edearl wrote:
deepbluehum wrote:In Asia, heretics amass huge followings and accumulate billions of dollars. Buddhists don't kill heretics.

Why do they accumulate $ billions? I know, Buddhists are non-violent.

Finally found it on Google. They are having a giant Buddha relief carved on the Baltoro Glacier.
HHDL: "My confidence in venturing into science lies in my basic belief that as in science so in Buddhism, understanding the nature of reality is pursued by means of critical investigation: if scientific analysis were conclusively to demonstrate certain claims in Buddhism to be false, then we must accept the findings of science and abandon those claims."
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Re: How to spot Heretical teachings

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:08 pm

edearl wrote:I know, Buddhists are non-violent.
Well, it seems things are not as they appear
http://religionnewsblog.blogspot.com/20 ... hists.html
http://thepersecutiontimes.com/category ... /buddhism/
http://atheism.about.com/od/bookreviews/fr/ZenAtWar.htm
and here's something from this very site to mull over
viewtopic.php?f=77&t=4884&start=0
ad nauseum...
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: How to spot Heretical teachings

Postby Dechen Norbu » Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:19 pm

Yes, it's always a shame when Buddhists don't uphold the values that Buddhism stands for. But being a Buddhist is not the same as being a Buddha or a Bodhisattva.

What would you expect? By any chance are you perfect just because you claim to be a Buddhist? Well, neither are others who also claim to be Buddhists. So this is the usual behavior based on prejudice, economic and political interests and so on and so forth, unfortunately so common in humans. This has nothing to do with them being Buddhists, since there's nothing in Buddhist doctrine that supports this kind of behavior.
I would say that Buddhism in its religious interpretation is quite mild when it comes to proselytism if compared to other religions. Historically Buddhists weren't exactly the best example of warmongers, although there were wars among themselves and others. Still, Buddhism history is generally quite peaceful if compared to the history of other religions.

There's also something I would like to say and I hope you don't take it the wrong way. If I were you, Greg, I would avoid trying to be the upholder of moral around the forum as such conduct tends to backfire! :lol: The thread you point has valid and well thought opinions from both sides. :smile:

Best wishes.
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Re: How to spot Heretical teachings

Postby Dechen Norbu » Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:21 pm

BTW, that guide to find heretical teachings really sucks Food_Eatah! :lol:
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Re: How to spot Heretical teachings

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:10 pm

Dechen Norbu wrote:There's also something I would like to say and I hope you don't take it the wrong way. If I were you, Greg, I would avoid trying to be the upholder of moral around the forum as such conduct tends to backfire! :lol: The thread you point has valid and well thought opinions from both sides. :smile:
Upholder of morality? I merely pointed out an example of less-than-non-violent Buddhists here at Dharmawheel regardles of validity and "well-thought outness". I could just as easily have pointed to this thread viewtopic.php?f=66&t=5574&start=0 or this one viewtopic.php?f=66&t=4759#p48821 to show that not all Buddhists (at Dharmawheel) are non-violent.

Pointing them out is not a moral judgement of the opinions expressed in the threads (even if I do tend to personally push the non-violent line) but merely a recognition of the fact that not all Buddhists are non-violent. ie Lets not kid ourselves!

Now what the Buddha has to say on the whole violent/non-violent deal... That's a totally different story.
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"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: How to spot Heretical teachings

Postby xylem » Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:11 pm

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Re: How to spot Heretical teachings

Postby deepbluehum » Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:31 pm

I have found that whenever someone says, "I'm no liar," they are a major liar. I've heard a lama or two tell me such and such amazing this or that is true, followed, "I'm no liar..."
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Re: How to spot Heretical teachings

Postby edearl » Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:37 pm

Dechen Norbu wrote:Yes, it's always a shame when Buddhists don't uphold the values that Buddhism stands for. But being a Buddhist is not the same as being a Buddha or a Bodhisattva.

What would you expect? By any chance are you perfect just because you claim to be a Buddhist? Well, neither are others who also claim to be Buddhists. So this is the usual behavior based on prejudice, economic and political interests and so on and so forth, unfortunately so common in humans. This has nothing to do with them being Buddhists, since there's nothing in Buddhist doctrine that supports this kind of behavior.

Everyone has a bad side--my quick bad temper has embarrassed many times, but only once (fortunately) did I hit someone (unfortunately). Dechen pointed out that Buddhists sometimes shame themselves by doing bad things; almost anyone may. After WWII Harvard University sponsored the Milgram experiment which demonstrated how easy it is for a person who appears to be an authority figure to convince almost anyone to believe and/or do unusual, bad or horrible things (see link below).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

This experiment explains why a charismatic person can start and grow a cult. For example Jim Jones who built Jonestown in Guiana which resulted in the massacre of many people, and David Koresh who built the Branch Davidians in Waco, Texas that also resulted in many people dieing. Recently Baptist Pastor Robert Jeffress called the Mormon religion (Church of Latter Day Saints, LDS) a cult and not Christian, apparently because Mitt Romney, a Mormon, hopes to get the Republican presidential nomination. When Joseph Smith started the LDS it was cult like, but many people now accept it as a manor religion.

What motivates people like Jim Jones, David Koresh and Joseph Smith to start a new religious order is really unknown. In many cases they claim they talk with God. They may be hallucinating, power hungry and lying, or actually talking with God, I don't know, but my suspicion is hallucinating or lying. In any case, the Milgram experiment and the plethora of people who start cults and religions make me skeptical about all religious ideas.

Therefore, I try to live my life the Right Way, that is to view things as they really are, instead of viewing them as they appear or as I would like them to be. In addition, I try to question whether my view is actually right thinking, because it is easy for one's mind to trick you into making a mistake. These things have led me to believe in the scientific method; nonetheless, scientists who follow the scientific process do make mistakes, which is why scientists require two unassociated people to do the same experiment--to verify a mistake has not been made. Moreover, HHDL said, "My confidence in venturing into science lies in my basic belief that as in science so in Buddhism, understanding the nature of reality is pursued by means of critical investigation."

Thus, when people accept beliefs that have been taught by authority figures for thousands of years instead of science, I am concerned. After all, the Buddha wrote nothing. We must rely on the teachings of men and women, that may be accurately teaching what the Buddha said, or may not. Any of these teachers may have misunderstood the Buddha, or they may have been motivated as Jim Jones, David Koresh, and others.

Following Right Way is not easy and doing accurate the scientific work is not easy--because people are error prone. Making mistakes is easy.

Metta
HHDL: "My confidence in venturing into science lies in my basic belief that as in science so in Buddhism, understanding the nature of reality is pursued by means of critical investigation: if scientific analysis were conclusively to demonstrate certain claims in Buddhism to be false, then we must accept the findings of science and abandon those claims."
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