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 Post subject: Elimination
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:22 pm 
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What forms of Buddhism don't require prostrations, recitations, prayers, yoga stretches, candles, incense, statues, malas and all other forms of external, sensuous practice?

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 Post subject: Re: Elimination
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:38 pm 
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Just keep it simple for now. Sit down wherever, whenever and think for a minute why you are doing what you are doing, then use whichever object you want (breath, mantra, visualization) to develop concentration. Keep to the time you set yourself and when done dedicate merit. Do that for a few months every day and then come back.
During the day, try to just generate positive thought and metta to all beings.

I know this is basic, but sometimes basic is what's needed.


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 Post subject: Re: Elimination
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:58 pm 
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Epistemes wrote:
What forms of Buddhism don't require prostrations, recitations, prayers, yoga stretches, candles, incense, statues, malas and all other forms of external, sensuous practice?

None "require" them.
They are tools and methods, not prerequisites.


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 Post subject: Re: Elimination
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:04 pm 
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But Nangwa, in most Tibetan Buddhist traditions, they are the practice.


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 Post subject: Re: Elimination
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:04 pm 
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Everything is very, very easy - just do what your teacher tells you to do.

That's it.


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 Post subject: Re: Elimination
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:21 pm 
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Clarence wrote:
But Nangwa, in most Tibetan Buddhist traditions, they are the practice.


Not really.
If you look at the essence of the traditions we will find Dzogchen, Mahamudra, and Lamdre.
The rest are just methods and tools to plant the seeds that will ripen the practitioner for the essential practices.


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 Post subject: Re: Elimination
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:28 pm 
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Karma Dondrup Tashi wrote:
Everything is very, very easy - just do what your teacher tells you to do.

That's it.

So true.

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 Post subject: Re: Elimination
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:08 am 
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Just be sure to find a decent teacher, though. He won't mind your questions (unless they are nonsensical or something) and will do his best to help. Caveat emptor as they say... ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Elimination
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:50 am 
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Epistemes wrote:
What forms of Buddhism don't require prostrations, recitations, prayers, yoga stretches, candles, incense, statues, malas and all other forms of external, sensuous practice?


Well, maybe Theravada or zen are the most spare in terms of "techniques." Check out dhamma.org for a really good vipassana retreat.

But even the barest form of sitting meditation is still an "external, sensuous practice" - because it requires you to do something with your body and engage the senses in a particular way (usually, by introverting them). Mahayana teaches that you can attain enlightenment in 16 lifetimes just by practicing kindness, without even doing any meditation (according to Words of My Perfect Teacher)- but this still requires external activity.

Maybe Dzogchen would actually be the closest to what you're asking about - the essential "practice" in Dzogchen is Guru Yoga - usually this is taught with some kind of visualization, but even that isn't necessary - if you can rest in the natural state with ease. Visualization would be just a tool. If you can walk around 24/7 in rigpa, that would be the ideal - nothing else needed. But apparently all reputable teachers of all schools seem to have found that some sort of "practice" is necessary to tame our unruly minds. Especially in these degenerate times, which is why Tantra is supposed to be so effective these days. . .


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 Post subject: Re: Elimination
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:02 am 
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Epistemes wrote:
What forms of Buddhism don't require prostrations, recitations, prayers, yoga stretches, candles, incense, statues, malas and all other forms of external, sensuous practice?

The path of renunciation which includes renunciation of views and attachments to practices which arise from them.
However that does not necessarily entail that one renounces those practices too, but it may. It does however entail the cessation of experiencing "This form of Buddhism does require ..." or "My practice is [has to be] {this or that} but is not [must not be] {this or that}".


Kind regards


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 Post subject: Re: Elimination
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:40 pm 
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Karma Dondrup Tashi wrote:
Everything is very, very easy - just do what your teacher tells you to do.

That's it.


He's dead.

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 Post subject: Re: Elimination
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:18 pm 
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Epistemes wrote:
Karma Dondrup Tashi wrote:
Everything is very, very easy - just do what your teacher tells you to do.

That's it.


He's dead.

There are more. Just because you start working with someone else doesnt mean you are abandoning him.
Many of us have had teachers pass away and its something we all will have to deal with.


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