Jesus, a Buddhist?

Whether you're exploring Buddhism for the first time or you're already on the path, feel free to ask questions of any kind here.

Re: Jesus, a Buddhist?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:25 am

Now that's strange! I just scanned the file for viruses and there are none in the file. Maybe it got corrupted during the upload or maybe the problem is in the cache site that Dharma Wheel is using.

I'll try again now.
buddhism and christianity.pdf
(399.12 KiB) Downloaded 45 times

Is that better?
:namaste:
PS I tried to download it from my previous post and it worked perfectly. Maybe the problem is at your end? Anybody else try to download and had the same problem as Rael?
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Jesus, a Buddhist?

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:56 am

Greetings Rael,

Do you have Adobe Reader installed on your computer?

Metta,
Retro. :)
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Re: Jesus, a Buddhist?

Postby muni » Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:11 am

We should can see the trap of how we behave by our view, our tradition, our religion, realizing the merely tools to recognize that very clinging.
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Re: Jesus, a Buddhist?

Postby Tilopa » Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:01 am

muni wrote:We should can see the trap of how we behave by our view, our tradition, our religion, realizing the merely tools to recognize that very clinging.

Errrr...what? :shrug:
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Re: Jesus, a Buddhist?

Postby muni » Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:28 pm

Tilopa wrote:
muni wrote:We should can see the trap of how we behave by our view, our tradition, our religion, realizing the merely tools to recognize that very clinging.

Errrr...what? :shrug:


Our labeling I, I am a Buddhist, he not.
Jesus showed maybe good teaching but how people are reacting on a teaching; forming religion which is mine. It is me told by a theologian knowing Christian Religion that what is written down is merely by a limited understanding like that old book in which chosen words are sold for Jesus teaching.
This is not different in Buddhism, as words are tools, far away from direct experience.
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Re: Jesus, a Buddhist?

Postby Rael » Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:38 pm

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Rael,

Do you have Adobe Reader installed on your computer?

Metta,
Retro. :)

I thought I did....

hmmmmm...
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Re: Jesus, a Buddhist?

Postby Rael » Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:21 pm

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Rael,

Do you have Adobe Reader installed on your computer?

Metta,
Retro. :)

ok downloaded the newer version and voila....it works...

TA VERY MUCH
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Re: Jesus, a Buddhist?

Postby Inge » Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:28 am

This is from Buddha Root Farm - Pure Land talks by the Venerable Master Hsuan Hua:

"Do you who are Christians know that Jesus disappeared for three years, during which time no one knew his whereabouts? During those three years, he went to India to study the Buddhadharma. Having studied the Buddhadharma, he preached about rebirth in the heavens and going to a heavenly paradise. This concept is pretty similar to what the Amitabha Sutra says. Jesus was also a part of Buddhism. He used those methods to teach and transform a certain kind of living beings, but ultimately, they will all go back to the root and return to the source and everyone will become a Buddha. But many people are unaware of this. (Added during translation: Jesus was a part of Buddhism. He was a Buddhist. However, he did not want to admit that he was Buddhist, so he did not preach Buddhism.)"
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Re: Jesus, a Buddhist?

Postby Tilopa » Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:49 am

Inge wrote:This is from Buddha Root Farm - Pure Land talks by the Venerable Master Hsuan Hua:

"Do you who are Christians know that Jesus disappeared for three years, during which time no one knew his whereabouts? During those three years, he went to India to study the Buddhadharma. Having studied the Buddhadharma, he preached about rebirth in the heavens and going to a heavenly paradise. This concept is pretty similar to what the Amitabha Sutra says. Jesus was also a part of Buddhism. He used those methods to teach and transform a certain kind of living beings, but ultimately, they will all go back to the root and return to the source and everyone will become a Buddha. But many people are unaware of this. (Added during translation: Jesus was a part of Buddhism. He was a Buddhist. However, he did not want to admit that he was Buddhist, so he did not preach Buddhism.)"

Don't tell the Christians! :tongue:
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Re: Jesus, a Buddhist?

Postby Rael » Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:57 am

Inge wrote:This is from Buddha Root Farm - Pure Land talks by the Venerable Master Hsuan Hua:

"Do you who are Christians know that Jesus disappeared for three years, during which time no one knew his whereabouts? During those three years, he went to India to study the Buddhadharma. Having studied the Buddhadharma, he preached about rebirth in the heavens and going to a heavenly paradise. This concept is pretty similar to what the Amitabha Sutra says. Jesus was also a part of Buddhism. He used those methods to teach and transform a certain kind of living beings, but ultimately, they will all go back to the root and return to the source and everyone will become a Buddha. But many people are unaware of this. (Added during translation: Jesus was a part of Buddhism. He was a Buddhist. However, he did not want to admit that he was Buddhist, so he did not preach Buddhism.)"


its actually from age 12 to age 30 that He was missing...
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Re: Jesus, a Buddhist?

Postby Dexing » Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:55 pm

Rael wrote:
Inge wrote:This is from Buddha Root Farm - Pure Land talks by the Venerable Master Hsuan Hua:

"Do you who are Christians know that Jesus disappeared for three years, during which time no one knew his whereabouts? During those three years, he went to India to study the Buddhadharma. Having studied the Buddhadharma, he preached about rebirth in the heavens and going to a heavenly paradise. This concept is pretty similar to what the Amitabha Sutra says. Jesus was also a part of Buddhism. He used those methods to teach and transform a certain kind of living beings, but ultimately, they will all go back to the root and return to the source and everyone will become a Buddha. But many people are unaware of this. (Added during translation: Jesus was a part of Buddhism. He was a Buddhist. However, he did not want to admit that he was Buddhist, so he did not preach Buddhism.)"


its actually from age 12 to age 30 that He was missing...


In all likelihood, he was growing up with his brothers and sisters in Nazareth.

His teachings of salvation and eternal life in heaven is nothing like rebirth in Sukhāvatī.

Just like the Buddha was the ninth incarnation of Viṣṇu, right? :roll:

Wish people would stop trying to bogart the good deeds of other religious leaders, and claim them as practitioners of their own. Does Buddhism really lack a sufficient number of great historical practitioners, that it needs to claim others?

:namaste:
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Re: Jesus, a Buddhist?

Postby plwk » Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:39 pm

Just like the Buddha was the ninth incarnation of Viṣṇu, right?

Gawd even this is hotly debated among Hindus... :lol:
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Re: Jesus, a Buddhist?

Postby Rael » Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:06 pm

Dexing wrote:
Rael wrote:
Inge wrote:This is from Buddha Root Farm - Pure Land talks by the Venerable Master Hsuan Hua:

"Do you who are Christians know that Jesus disappeared for three years, during which time no one knew his whereabouts? During those three years, he went to India to study the Buddhadharma. Having studied the Buddhadharma, he preached about rebirth in the heavens and going to a heavenly paradise. This concept is pretty similar to what the Amitabha Sutra says. Jesus was also a part of Buddhism. He used those methods to teach and transform a certain kind of living beings, but ultimately, they will all go back to the root and return to the source and everyone will become a Buddha. But many people are unaware of this. (Added during translation: Jesus was a part of Buddhism. He was a Buddhist. However, he did not want to admit that he was Buddhist, so he did not preach Buddhism.)"


its actually from age 12 to age 30 that He was missing...


In all likelihood, he was growing up with his brothers and sisters in Nazareth.

His teachings of salvation and eternal life in heaven is nothing like rebirth in Sukhāvatī.

Just like the Buddha was the ninth incarnation of Viṣṇu, right? :roll:

Wish people would stop trying to bogart the good deeds of other religious leaders, and claim them as practitioners of their own. Does Buddhism really lack a sufficient number of great historical practitioners, that it needs to claim others?

:namaste:


I wish even more!!!! people would not use hippie Jargon like "Bogart" wrongly :ban:
:rolling:
Bogart means to hog..it's the opposite of share...

anyway the whole vishnu thing came from some guy i believe in the 12 century trying incorporate Buddha into hindu belief system for political reasons....
Some dalits that got on my email list asking me for money found out i was a Buddhist and they gave me links a long time ago...in an internet gallaxy gone the way of the bogarted joint... :coffee:

Look it's more opinion than anything else...

but there is a temple in the Himalayas that boast a Jesus who stayed there from the mid east around the time of Christ

http://reluctant-messenger.com/issa.htm

http://tombofjesus.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=75


i couldn't watch the video...for this stuff really doesn't impress me enough to warrant my time....lol
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Re: Jesus, a Buddhist?

Postby Dexing » Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:56 am

Rael wrote:I wish even more!!!! people would not use hippie Jargon like "Bogart" wrongly :ban:
:rolling:
Bogart means to hog..it's the opposite of share...


I'm not illiterate. Thank you.

Some people "hog" good deeds, claiming that they were done by such great spiritual leaders because they must have learned their religious teachings, because clearly such things are exclusively "~ist". :roll:

Why can't good deeds be universal, capable of being done by anyone regardless of religious affiliation? If all beings possess the virtuous qualities of the Tathāgata, it doesn't require being Buddhist to do and teach such things.

:namaste:
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Re: Jesus, a Buddhist?

Postby fragrant herbs » Sun Feb 13, 2011 1:45 pm

Pema Rigdzin wrote:I think this is all speculation and wishful thinking, and assumes that non-Buddhists would have to depend on Buddhism in order to recognize common sense wisdom. If Jesus was a Mahayana Buddhist teacher, would not he have taught refuge in the 3 Jewels, generation of bodhicitta, and the dedication of merit? Or maybe you're suggesting that he was secretly a bodhisattva and using skillful means to guide people without karma to connect with the Buddha Dharma? That could very well be, but there's no way to know. I suppose it's an interesting topic for a conversation over coffee or tea with friends, though.


Or we could consider that since the Gospels are basically Buddhist writings, that perhaps there were no Jesus Christ.

What I am saying is that even the early Christian church realized that the gospels were Buddhist: "The Christian church was already aware in the second century of external and internal similarities between Buddhism and the New Testament texts. The result was the Church did everything possible to deny such correspondences." --from The Original Jesus--The Buddhist Sources of Christianity. (This book shows parallel teachings of both Buddha and Christ and well as going into a lot of history.)

Even I noticed this myself when I picked up a book on Buddhism. So much so that I called my college professor, who gave courses on Comparative religion, and asked her about it. Her belief was that Christ had traveled in India. In later years, I had read the manuscript claimed to have come from the Hemis monastery, but then it was discounted by the monks there, who claimed that there was no manuscript there that spoke of Christ coming to learn from them, and no one by the name of Notovich ever showed up at their monastery to view this text. But the Life of Issa by Notovich is an interesting read.

Now according to this book I am reading for the second time, the Original Jesus, Buddhism was in the same vicinity as Christ, so he could have learned from them, that is, if there were a Christ.

But the one thing is certain, the parallels are there in almost everything Jesus said. If there were a Christ, perhaps he was using skillful means just as Buddha had.

But one thing that this should do is help others to accept Christianity, because how can you not if it teaches Buddhism. My own problem with Christianity is how it is being taught today and how people spend time trying to save others and claim that Christ is the only way, but then even Buddha said that his teaching was the path to liberation.

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Re: Jesus, a Buddhist?

Postby Mr. G » Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:52 pm

Can someone provide an academic source where a scholar provides some evidence that Jesus studied Buddhism in India and taught the 4 Noble Truths and 8 Fold Path?
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
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Re: Jesus, a Buddhist?

Postby fragrant herbs » Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:49 pm

mr. gordo wrote:Can someone provide an academic source where a scholar provides some evidence that Jesus studied Buddhism in India and taught the 4 Noble Truths and 8 Fold Path?


There is no evidence that Jesus existed, so there would really be no evidence of his going to India to study. Although there are many stories of his doing so. All you can basically do is compare teachings, and that has been done. Basically, what is written in the gospels is the same as what is written in Buddhism, but not all of the teachings of Buddha are in the gospels.

Maybe this will help: http://www.allaboutreligion.org/compari ... sm-faq.htm
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Re: Jesus, a Buddhist?

Postby Mr. G » Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:56 pm

Urgyen Chodron wrote:
mr. gordo wrote:Can someone provide an academic source where a scholar provides some evidence that Jesus studied Buddhism in India and taught the 4 Noble Truths and 8 Fold Path?


There is no evidence that Jesus existed, so there would really be no evidence of his going to India to study. Although there are many stories of his doing so. All you can basically do is compare teachings, and that has been done. Basically, what is written in the gospels is the same as what is written in Buddhism, but not all of the teachings of Buddha are in the gospels.

Maybe this will help: http://www.allaboutreligion.org/compari ... sm-faq.htm


Hi Urgyen,

Actually I disagree that what the Buddha taught was written in the Gospels. I think the link you provided doesn't not even begin to show that:

Right Effort - "Whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God" (1 Corinthians 10:31).

Right Mindfulness - "So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal" (2 Corinthians 4:18).


Both those scriptural quotes are in no way equivalent to how "Right Effort" or "Right Mindfulness" has been defined in the sutras. I find it to be an attempt of Christians attempting to re-appropriate Buddhism into a Judaeo-Christian context. Also, where in Christianity is there a devloped theory of "no-self"?

But you're right. There has been no academic study that states Jesus studied Buddhism in India, and the textual analysis that attempts to correlate Buddhism to Christianity seems incredibly strained.
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Re: Jesus, a Buddhist?

Postby fragrant herbs » Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:23 pm

I agree that those scriptures do not really teach the eightfold noble path in the same manner. But what i said was that much of what is in the gospels was said by Buddha beforehand:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_Christianity

In 1883, Max Müller, the pioneering scholar of comparative religion and orientalist, asserted in his India: What it Can Teach Us: "That there are startling coincidences between Buddhism and Christianity cannot be denied, and it must likewise be admitted that Buddhism existed at least 400 years before Christianity.


It cannot be denied that both taught compassion, love, kamma, etc.-

As for going to India:

The "Life of Saint Issa, Best of the Sons of Men" purportedly recounts the travels of one known in the East as Saint Issa, whom Notovitch identified as Jesus. After initially doubting Notovitch, a disciple of Sri Ramakrishna, Swami Abhedananda, journeyed to Tibet, investigated his claim, helped translate part of the document, and later championed his views.[38]

Notovitch's writings were immediately controversial. The German orientalist Max Müller corresponded with the Hemis monastery that Notovitch claimed to have visited and Archibald Douglas visited Hemis Monastery. Neither found any evidence that Notovich (much less Jesus) had even been there himself, so they rejected his claims. The head of the Hemis community signed a document that denounced Notovitch as a liar.[39]



Of course, who are you going to believe, the Lamas at Hemis that say there are no texts or Swami Abhedananda who claims to have also gone to India and saw them? Is either lying? Both religions have precepts against lying, and so maybe the text as lost or maybe the Vedantist Swami never went to India. Who knows?

And here is another:

According to Jerry Bentley, "Scholars have often considered the possibility that Buddhism influenced the early development of Christianity. They have drawn attention to many parallels concerning the births, lives, doctrines, and deaths of the Buddha and Jesus".[41]


And yet here are two that i really like:

# ^ The Dalai Lama,The Good Heart: A Buddhist Perspective on the Teachings of Jesus, ISBN 0-86171-138-6# ^

Thich Nhat Hahn, Going Home: Jesus and Buddha as Brothers, 1999. ISBN 1573228303
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Re: Jesus, a Buddhist?

Postby Mr. G » Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:30 pm

Urgyen Chodron wrote:I agree that those scriptures do not really teach the eightfold noble path in the same manner. But what i said was that much of what is in the gospels was said by Buddha beforehand:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_Christianity

In 1883, Max Müller, the pioneering scholar of comparative religion and orientalist, asserted in his India: What it Can Teach Us: "That there are startling coincidences between Buddhism and Christianity cannot be denied, and it must likewise be admitted that Buddhism existed at least 400 years before Christianity.


It cannot be denied that both taught compassion, love, kamma, etc.-


Hi Urgyen,

Love and compassion are found in all major religions. It doesn't make Hinduism equivalent to Buddhism though. And in terms of Karma, I don't believe Jesus taught it the way Buddha taught it involving rebirth and enlightenment in reference to the 12 links of dependent origination. In terms of Muller, there has been much more scholarly work since his time, and I'm sure (Conze, Harvey, Collins, Williams, etc.) would have produced work relevant to this.



As for going to India:

The "Life of Saint Issa, Best of the Sons of Men" purportedly recounts the travels of one known in the East as Saint Issa, whom Notovitch identified as Jesus. After initially doubting Notovitch, a disciple of Sri Ramakrishna, Swami Abhedananda, journeyed to Tibet, investigated his claim, helped translate part of the document, and later championed his views.[38]

Notovitch's writings were immediately controversial. The German orientalist Max Müller corresponded with the Hemis monastery that Notovitch claimed to have visited and Archibald Douglas visited Hemis Monastery. Neither found any evidence that Notovich (much less Jesus) had even been there himself, so they rejected his claims. The head of the Hemis community signed a document that denounced Notovitch as a liar.[39]

Of course, who are you going to believe, the Lamas at Hemis that say there are no texts or Swami Abhedananda who claims to have also gone to India and saw them? Is either lying? Both religions have precepts against lying, and so maybe the text as lost or maybe the Vedantist Swami never went to India. Who knows?


And even Muller found no evidence of this.

And here is another:

According to Jerry Bentley, "Scholars have often considered the possibility that Buddhism influenced the early development of Christianity. They have drawn attention to many parallels concerning the births, lives, doctrines, and deaths of the Buddha and Jesus".[41]


What are these parallels he found?

And yet here are two that i really like:

# ^ The Dalai Lama,The Good Heart: A Buddhist Perspective on the Teachings of Jesus, ISBN 0-86171-138-6# ^

Thich Nhat Hahn, Going Home: Jesus and Buddha as Brothers, 1999. ISBN 1573228303


I have no issues with inter-faith comraderie. This is not saying that HHDL or TNH are equating Buddhism to Christianity
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