So, how about "Western" Buddhism?

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Re: So, how about "Western" Buddhism?

Postby Aemilius » Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:58 pm

Astus wrote:

It takes historical and archeological records to establish a theory. Does the Kalachakra tradition say anything about the Roman empire? If so, where?

You may think as you please, just don't expect me to take it seriously when it lacks proper foundation in reliable sources.


Thing is that you are always dependent on people, even with what you call "reliable sources", dependent on people who have found and interpreted the archeological evidence, dependent on everyone involved in the chain of transmitting that information. You have trust in that information, you have faith in those findings, you take refuge in the system of archeology. It is what you call "proper foundation", is that not so ? Community of archeologists is the true Sangha for you.
We know from experience that humans are not very reliable, expecially when the stakes are so high as they are in the case of archeology. We know from history that various dictators have produced " arghaeological findings" that support their world view. What makes you believe that modern european states are immune to the temptation of manufacturing archaeological evidence that suits their intentions and destroying the evidence they don't like ?
You have much faith, dear friend, I hope you realise that.
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Re: So, how about "Western" Buddhism?

Postby Heruka » Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:32 am

buddhism in the west will be used as all religions [are] as a means of control. if you wish to maintain a tax free exemption, then only government can regulate that. but you better be in their good graces,... please dont discuss that, dont raise this issue, dont become critical of government, tell the flock this and that......

organized buddhism no different, have you not seen the constant reference to foundation this and foundation that, the central council of buddhist leaders and so on...........

better to sit by yourself away from organized "think tanks".

switch of the propaganda buddhist channel, and free think for yourself.
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Re: So, how about "Western" Buddhism?

Postby Jikan » Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:24 am

Heruka wrote:switch of the propaganda buddhist channel, and free think for yourself.


What propaganda Buddhist channel are you speaking of?

In North America or Europe, how is any Buddhist institution in collusion with any state institution, and further, how are said institutions working in nefarious or oppressive ways with the help of Buddhists or Buddhist groups?
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Re: So, how about "Western" Buddhism?

Postby muni » Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:28 am

No bad idea to remain careful with calling texts authentic like an authentic Rolex. Study, teaching methods-tools investigation-meditation-contemplation can exclude doubts to pull us out of ignorance.
Buddhism shouldn't keep us even more entangled in our habitual network by its' preferences, suitable comfort which can easely condition us even more. Trying to understand the texts only can be interpreted in different ways. Whether Eastern or Western, we cannot merely rely on words only, or on a modelated form adapted on the colours of our culture. That itself is delusion. Dzogchen Ponlop Rinpoche says simple: Dharma is beyond culture, languages, places and so on.

To have it all under control by cocooning great intelligence and insight hides a solid trap. Teachings we must once left as well. A guiding hand from one awaken out of the dreamlike state, who knows the way out can be a great help in navigation, and to see the value of texts, and clearly " see beyond" limitations of historical reality.

Then our clouds must finally be seen by us.

Western Buddhism, give it a definition and it exists with its' own characteristics.

Only silly two cents. :pig:
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Re: So, how about "Western" Buddhism?

Postby Heruka » Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:58 pm

Jikan wrote:
Heruka wrote:switch of the propaganda buddhist channel, and free think for yourself.


What propaganda Buddhist channel are you speaking of?

In North America or Europe, how is any Buddhist institution in collusion with any state institution, and further, how are said institutions working in nefarious or oppressive ways with the help of Buddhists or Buddhist groups?



ever heard of clergy response teams?
probably not im guessing.


heres a reported sample for your consideration, im also guessing you think buddhism is beyond such colusion and cooperation with powers?

http://www.ksla.com/Global/story.asp?S=6937987




Dr. Durell Tuberville serves as chaplain for the Shreveport Fire Department and the Caddo Sheriff's Office. Tuberville said of the clergy team's mission, "the primary thing that we say to anybody is, 'let's cooperate and get this thing over with and then we'll settle the differences once the crisis is over.'"
Such clergy response teams would walk a tight-rope during martial law between the demands of the government on the one side, versus the wishes of the public on the other. "In a lot of cases, these clergy would already be known in the neighborhoods in which they're helping to diffuse that situation," assured Sandy Davis. He serves as the director of the Caddo-Bossier Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness.
For the clergy team, one of the biggest tools that they will have in helping calm the public down or to obey the law is the bible itself, specifically Romans 13. Dr. Tuberville elaborated, "because the government's established by the Lord, you know. And, that's what we believe in the Christian faith. That's what's stated in the scripture."
Civil rights advocates believe the amount of public cooperation during such a time of unrest may ultimately depend on how long they expect a suspension of rights might last.





"The boundaries of our language, are the boundaries of our world."
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Re: So, how about "Western" Buddhism?

Postby justsit » Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:09 pm

A. Your article presupposes imposition of martial law

and

B. No mention of Buddhism there.

How do you see that article as addressing the question that was posed regarding Buddhist collusion with government?
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Re: So, how about "Western" Buddhism?

Postby Heruka » Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:18 pm

http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php ... 63,0,0,1,0

The Battling Buddhists
by Lewis I. Rice, The Boston Magazine, From the November 2004 issue
A bitter feud between two monks divides a community and its temple. Literally.



Sao and Chek are no longer friends. In fact, each is prevented by court order from entering the other's portion of the temple. So are their respective supporters. Chek also refuses to enter the courtroom where the case is being tried, which he believes is not the proper place for a Buddhist monk. Each side insists the other is not abiding by Buddhist tenets. Chek supporters say Sao wants to be a kind of pope of the monks, a violation of Buddhism's comparatively nonhierarchical structure. They accuse him in court papers of funneling local contributions away from the temple. They also say that, for a monk, he's just not very nice.

"People became uneasy because of his behavior," says Thel Sar, a member of the temple who works as a probation officer in Lowell District Court. "He's insulted people's intelligence. He's cursed at people. He makes people very uncomfortable."

Sao supporters allege in court documents that Chek has let local members of the Cambodian Funcinpec Party, which backs the country's constitutional monarchy, use the temple for organizing activities, and that he sends money back to the party in Cambodia--charges Chek denies. "I want to stop the political party inside the temple," says Pere Pen, a member of the temple and former executive director of the Cambodian Mutual Assistance Association of Greater Lowell. "The temple is not the place for them to do politics."

The two sides agree on one thing: Each says the other does not belong in the temple. And each has maneuvered to get the other out. On June 4, 1999, Sao, Pen, and Sak Seang, another temple member, told the Chelmsford police that Chek had made threats against Sao and was in the country illegally. Five days later, Seang called the police to ask that officers remove Chek from the temple. The next day, however, Sao and Samboon Kert, a monk and Sao ally, went to the police station to report that Chek was again welcome at the temple.

The incident angered Chek supporters, who called a special meeting of the temple board. According to minutes of the meeting, 70 temple members voted to oust Kert as board president. In response, Kert fired all of the board's officers and installed himself in each of their positions. He also transferred the temple and parsonage to Sao's organization, the Community of Khmer Buddhist Monks, for $2. Members of the temple filed suit to get the buildings back. Chek supporters charged that Kert had no authority to transfer the property: "They didn't buy the property," says their lawyer, Jocelyn Campbell. "They stole the property."


http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php ... 22,0,0,1,0


Combating terror, the Buddha way
Express News Service, Dec 12, 2004
New Delhi, India -- ?It is very easy to understand those who agree with you, but not so easy to have a dialogue with those who do not. This is why the stories from the life of Buddha are an important reminder for today?s world leaders, including those combating terrorism,?? said Prof. Satish Kumar, traveller and writer on Buddhism, today evening.

Kumar was delivering a talk on his latest book, Buddha and the Terrorist, at the IHC. Also present was Dr Karan Singh.

The book, based on Buddha?s encounter with the robber Angulimaal - who wore a garland he made from his victims fingers. Kumar spoke on how Buddha ultimately overcame this terror and used the tale as a modern fable for those governments battling terrorists.
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Re: So, how about "Western" Buddhism?

Postby Heruka » Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:20 pm

justsit wrote:A. Your article presupposes imposition of martial law



No, it highlights the collusion of government and religion. or did you think they are seperate?
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Re: So, how about "Western" Buddhism?

Postby Heruka » Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:24 pm

justsit wrote:
B. No mention of Buddhism there.

How do you see that article as addressing the question that was posed regarding Buddhist collusion with government?


I went to the beloved buddhist channel and just pulled two simple stories, you can go back and look again at the site and read for yourself. really im quite surprised that buddhists can be very sleepy to the world around them. again the articles are not explicit, but by inference, one can simply tease apart the collusion.

good luck escaping from the plantation.

:anjali:
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Re: So, how about "Western" Buddhism?

Postby Heruka » Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:42 pm

lol i missed this one, sat right here in plain view.

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2899


PRESS STATEMENT

THE MALAYSIAN BUDDHIST CONSULTATIVE COUNCIL DO NOT SUPPORT “THE BUDDHA RELICS & TIBETAN ANTIQUES”
BY KADHAMPA ORGANISATION

The Malaysian Buddhist Consultative Council (MBCC) do not support “The Buddha Relics & Tibetan Antiques” event held at Stadium Putra, Bukit Jalil, Kuala Lumpur from 23/12/10 to 1/1/11 organised by the “Malaysia Kadhampa Buddhist Association”.

The Buddha relics are the remains of the Buddha and they are highly respected among all Buddhists worldwide. As the Buddha relics are very rare and precious, the discovery of any Buddha relics would receive world attention. In addition, any claim of discovery of Buddha relics must be verified by recognised Buddhist masters and even scientifically by archaeologists and scientists.

Thus, the Malaysian Buddhist Consultative Council would like to inform the Buddhist disciples and the public not to support such event nor to attend the relics expo. The MBCC is unable to verify the authenticity of its Buddhist lineage.
In addition, the MBCC do not agree with the practice of any party who circulate the proclaimed “Buddha relics” commercially either through sales or donation.

The Malaysian Buddhist Consultative Council is consisted of Young Buddhist Association of Malaysia (YBAM), Buddhist Missionary Society Malaysia, Sasana Abhiwurdhi Wardhana Society (Sasana), Malaysian Fo Guang Buddhist Association and Vajrayana Buddhist Council Malaysia (VBCM).

Best regards,
Sek Chin Yong
Secretary
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Re: So, how about "Western" Buddhism?

Postby Heruka » Sat Jan 01, 2011 6:08 pm

Cancellation of the Contemporary Buddhist Seminar: "Understanding the New Political Scenario in Malaysia - Adaptation and Engagement for Buddhist Community"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysian_ ... and_Taoism

The Malaysian Consultative Council of Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Sikhism and Taoism (MCCBCHST) is a non-profit interfaith organization in Malaysia. Formed in 1983 as the "Malaysian Consultative Council of Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism and Sikhism", it is composed primarily of officials from the main non-Muslim faith communities in Malaysia and acts as a consultative and liaison body towards more open dialogue and co-operation. In 2006, Taoists were officially represented for the first time in the organization and the name was changed to the current form in their Annual General Meeting on September 27 of the same year.

http://www.ybam.org.my/cms/Latest_Updat ... s/259.html

Malaysia is a plural country with multi-racial groups, religions and cultures where ethnic and religious understanding forms an important foundation for the promotion of harmony in society and national sustainable development. Religions with correct beliefs play an important role in the development of people and society. Religions provide a place for people to take refuge so that mentally they feel balanced, enhancing their spiritual level. For a society, religions provide an educational mechanism to uphold stability and spiritual balance in the country. Therefore, in the process to build a harmonious society, followers of different religions must enhance the understanding of their own religions and practice them. The main religions in this world possess common features and universal values. Christianity preaches love, Buddhism demonstrates compassion and Islam emphasizes kindness. From this point of view, religious conflicts are unnecessary. Any conflict can be solved by communication, appreciation and understanding. As long as we possess Right Understanding, equality and tolerance, and a sense of symbiosis, there will be harmony in our society.

http://www.ybam.org.my/cms/Latest_Updat ... s/273.html
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Re: So, how about "Western" Buddhism?

Postby Heruka » Sat Jan 01, 2011 6:10 pm

so how about a western buddhism?
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Re: So, how about "Western" Buddhism?

Postby muni » Sat Jan 01, 2011 7:06 pm

Sad to read about political manipulating traps, rules and codes in dependence of worldly institutions.
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Re: So, how about "Western" Buddhism?

Postby Jikan » Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:11 pm

Heruka wrote:
Jikan wrote:
Heruka wrote:switch of the propaganda buddhist channel, and free think for yourself.


What propaganda Buddhist channel are you speaking of?

In North America or Europe, how is any Buddhist institution in collusion with any state institution, and further, how are said institutions working in nefarious or oppressive ways with the help of Buddhists or Buddhist groups?



ever heard of clergy response teams?
probably not im guessing.


heres a reported sample for your consideration, im also guessing you think buddhism is beyond such colusion and cooperation with powers?



I asked because I wanted to understand your position. No need to be presumptuous.
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Re: So, how about "Western" Buddhism?

Postby Heruka » Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:23 pm

Jikan wrote:I asked because I wanted to understand your position. No need to be presumptuous.



presumptuous to think i have a position.
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Re: So, how about "Western" Buddhism?

Postby Heruka » Sun Jan 02, 2011 7:58 am

again no one can dispute the facts presented, just typical moral relativity against the messenger.


the overton window syndrom.
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Re: So, how about "Western" Buddhism?

Postby Aemilius » Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:08 pm

Here is something more about an earlier theme, ie the european sects Bogomils and Cathars. There has been a lot of discussion and study about them, there are many things in them that seem quite buddhistic, it has been said several times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogomilism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharism
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