bhuddist dharma versus buddhist practice

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
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tomschwarz
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bhuddist dharma versus buddhist practice

Post by tomschwarz »

)))) buddhist dharma, according to the diamond sutra http://www.diamond-sutra.com/diamond_su ... page6.html, is something that we must leave behind, like a raft used to cross a river. but the practice of buddhism (ethics, meditation and wisdom) is amorphous/absolute, and you can take with you. agree? no?
i dedicate this post to your happiness, the causes of your happiness, the absence of your suffering the causes of the absence of your suffering that we may not have too much attachment nor aversion. SAMAYAMANUPALAYA
DGA
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Re: bhuddist dharma versus buddhist practice

Post by DGA »

short answer: You get to leave behind Buddhist practice and teachings (Dharma) when you've realized them and become a Buddha. Until you've reached the stage where you have nothing more to learn, it doesn't seem so clever to drop out.
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tomschwarz
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Re: bhuddist dharma versus buddhist practice

Post by tomschwarz »

of course jikan, you are right. we must relate to the dharma for the precious jewel that it is, and learn from it. but what is that message, e.g. what is the message of the four noble truths? it is about suffering, its origin, cessation, and the path to the cessation of suffering for all sentient beings. and at the core of that message lies the two truths. and with one of them, the relative truth, lies conflict, the three sufferings, fundamental ignorance, and so on. and the other truth, the absolute truth, is the antidote for the three poisons, the conflicted mental states, the cycle of rebirth and the cause for unconditional love, empathetic joy, equanimity and compassion.

and see, the funny thing, is that we can load the "dharma" with our ego, like a body builder with steroids ))))))) my school, your school, my understanding, your understanding, my mind, your mind, my country, my history, your war, your suffering, my religion, my salvation, your stupidity/fundemental ignorance and so on... and how to avoid this pitfall? buddhist practice ))))): ethics, meditation and wisdom. as his holiness the dalai lama would say, if buddhism is not helping (to bring happiness, concord, peace of mind, etc...) something is wrong ))))))
i dedicate this post to your happiness, the causes of your happiness, the absence of your suffering the causes of the absence of your suffering that we may not have too much attachment nor aversion. SAMAYAMANUPALAYA
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Ayu
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Re: bhuddist dharma versus buddhist practice

Post by Ayu »

I was told, dharma is practice. There is no scope for "versus". :smile:
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Ayu
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Re: bhuddist dharma versus buddhist practice

Post by Ayu »

And buddhist practice is mainly done in day-to-day life, not only on the cushion.
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tomschwarz
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Re: bhuddist dharma versus buddhist practice

Post by tomschwarz »

yes ayu -- that is true )))). that is why i like buddhism so much, and why i was taken by buddhism at the age of 15 (as a catholic). the catholic community that i was part of, did not spend much effort considering the implications of the ethics in the bible on their lives. and the buddhists made practice their religion, and not only on the cushion as you mentioned )))))

but the challenge here, is to feel that process of dharma -> practice/taking it to heart -> leaving the raft. i am always struck by the implications of his holiness the dalai lama's statement that the 5 world religions lead to the same place. that means that if you actually succeed on the buddhist path, and you are dead and are saying "avolokiteshvara, avolokiteshvara, avolokiteshvara", at some point that would become nameless and analogous to "jesus, jesus, jesus". kun-tu bzang-po and kun-tu bzang-mo (samantabhadra/ samantabhadri) stop being central, that was the raft. it is the awareness aspect of the buddha body of reality, and the emptiness aspect of the buddha body of reality, in your own subtle most mind, that is left, right?

but my point is that it is not so abstract ))))))). what is on the other side of the river, is the buddhist practice. the practice of absolute truth that was taught through skill full means by the relative verbal dharma. yes? no? of course, you can define dharma as not the words, books, concepts, ideas, etc... but rather their intended result, the practice. but that would defeat the purpose of this thread ))))), and that section of the diamond sutra linked above )). surely the buddha did not intend for beings to abandon their practice of buddhism (generosity, discipline, patience, moral strength, meditation and wisdom) when they crossed the river )))), just all the "this versus that" perspective, a.k.a. relative truth. yes? no?
i dedicate this post to your happiness, the causes of your happiness, the absence of your suffering the causes of the absence of your suffering that we may not have too much attachment nor aversion. SAMAYAMANUPALAYA
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Re: bhuddist dharma versus buddhist practice

Post by muni »

All is pointing, invitation to be liberated from suffering, not to know everything. Knowing as holding on, is the fabricating/apprehending mind, called "sem" in Tibetan. Knowing things is the opposite of Nature which has knowing aspect.
We do not jump out of our car to collect all temporary/fleeting orientation points/sign post to be able to reach our destination. In same way ( even there is no place to reach at all) all apprehended need to be freed, let go to be freed.

All liberating dharma, written or said by Nature's Essence is always fresh.

One can go on and on and think not have learned enough and finally at the end death knocks at the door and we have no bag to put our knowledge in and take with us. Our only bag; our knowing mind, with which we so much identify will fade like a shadow in the night. Then what use is it to hold on things as pointings to liberate?

When sem shut up at least a second, wisdom is allowed to dawn. :sage:
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Re: bhuddist dharma versus buddhist practice

Post by Astus »

Dharma is actualised in one's life. Practice is about actualising it more and more. That actualisation is leaving behind greed, hatred and ignorance. Once the causes of suffering are gone, actualisation is complete, one is the very embodiment of the Dharma. Thus there is nothing more to achieve, practice, actualise, or leave behind.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
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tomschwarz
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Re: bhuddist dharma versus buddhist practice

Post by tomschwarz »

One can go on and on and think not have learned enough and finally at the end death knocks at the door and we have no bag to put our knowledge in and take with us. Our only bag; our knowing mind, with which we so much identify will fade like a shadow in the night.
great point dearest muni!!! i have felt this for a long time!!! it is the practice!!!

time for quiet ))))))))))))

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i dedicate this post to your happiness, the causes of your happiness, the absence of your suffering the causes of the absence of your suffering that we may not have too much attachment nor aversion. SAMAYAMANUPALAYA
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Karma Dondrup Tashi
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Re: bhuddist dharma versus buddhist practice

Post by Karma Dondrup Tashi »

You need both view and method.
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