Well this is the problem with the issue of belief of this thing..."If we don't "believe" in Karma and it's effects, then why bother trying to do good things?
The contention of belief disallows the possibility of a known thing of karma. It is fine to allow that if your practice is founded upon belief but the only mention of belief disallows those that find this thing findable and real not hypothetical or possible.
As this is the exploring Buddhism section this thread leaves a impression upon those that are learning of buddhism.
It is again fine to state such a thing and to believe such things but to disallow that one may know this thing is inferred by the wording. So if one answers the poll one may find a negative response....I don't believe in karma, I know it.....a negative being actually a postiive.
So it misleads. Not purposely I intend no slander upon the initial poster, he is a fine fellow and devote buddhist....but it is stated wrongly and will lead to indeterminate result which may lead a person exploring buddhism to a wrong conclusion.
So that said....it is plainly clear and obvious to me that we are a micro display of all larger things. As no singlular identity may be found in any thing, all things being composite what I find in myself is what I may find in perceived other(object or being).
Karma.....is right here and now findable in everything we do say and act. It is quite obviously evident, when one examines oneself.
So it is not belief but fact.
So we should act rightly as if we act wrongly we will have wrong consequence suffered upon us.
As to doing wrong, aside from the obvious implication of karma, we as human derive our happiness only from helping. Displaying compassion. I study myself as I am and find that also. So I can act in no other way. YOu may claim difference as human I suspect you are the same in this, if you study it.
AS to enlightenment....I find enlightenment inescapable. It is only the time that is negotiable in this thing. So that also is a known. Derived that is also from study of how we are as sentient being.
So I'm sorry to offend Will and his friends...but no this remains worded wrong.
I believe in or know karma and its effects is a probable potential correct wording.
I can perhaps elaborate a bit if it is necessary to explain how these things are findable. But just in my laypersons simple language and ways.
Look at the poll...knowing this thing(and I am not alone)...how can I answer it, it is quite quite then confusing and potentially misleading.
I speak not only for myself but for others that know this as well.....you may differ but shouid not discount that we exist. I don't discount that you exist in that way. If this was in a particular school section, I perhaps would not raise objection. But it is in exploring.
As a aside, this may be certainly splitting hairs and I would not offer contention to this thread on this basis
but nevertheless this is also true and I am not alone in this as well.....(this is no claim of any spiritual understaning I am a very simple person with no understanding of profound things).....
...this is simply obvious.....as the basis of karmic effect is the aversion and attachment which results when and only in the concurrent presence of a me.....no karmic effect ever can occur. It's whole basis is on that of a false thing....self and other.
So say what you will.....oh I still suffer karmic effect and all the rest pain suffering
...I say nonsense....all you see of me is the appearence of such .
things.....nothing here suffers nor is effected in any manner. Say I believe not know that....I say nonsense.....you are no qualifier of that determination....I alone can be....
....so that is splitting hairs but why not split hairs and only express one way of looking at this thing, not all ways as this is exploring buddhism. All potential I would say is best. But that's just me.....the first part I stand by.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.