Metta

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
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Rick
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Metta

Post by Rick »

Something I've wondered about for a long time:

Is metta — loving-kindness — an inevitable product of awakening? I.e. does awakening always result in metta manifesting?

Or is awakening a profound peace and clarity into which the "flavour" of metta is infused through intentional practice?

In my experience of moments of deep awareness, what I experience is profound peace and clarity. In that peace is "space" for metta ... but the peace is not an embodiment of metta. It's ... peace.
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LastLegend
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Re: Metta

Post by LastLegend »

Keeping precepts such as no killing help. I am not awakened, so I don't know if it's a part of me.
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Rick
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Re: Metta

Post by Rick »

I'm using "awakening" to mean the process of waking up to what's really goin' on here. In that sense, anyone who dives into Buddhism has begun to awaken.
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Jesse
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Re: Metta

Post by Jesse »

Depends what kind of awakening you mean. In Buddhism all thing's are marked by selflessness. So awakening in that sense should be non-duality. Also an awakened being has no more defilement's, which means no more destructive emotions, so such a being would be joyous and compassionate all the time.

So without a self, all things, and beings are embraced with that compassion.
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A flash of lightning in a summer cloud,
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Rick
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Re: Metta

Post by Rick »

Jesse wrote:Depends what kind of awakening you mean. In Buddhism all thing's are marked by selflessness. So awakening in that sense should be non-duality. Also an awakened being has no more defilement's, which means no more destructive emotions, so such a being would be joyous and compassionate all the time.

So without a self, all things, and beings are embraced with that compassion.
That's helpful, thanks.

It sounds to me that you're saying something like this:

Humans experience a wide spectrum of emotions. But a big chunk of this spectrum — anger, jealousy, anxiety, etc. — arises from wrong understanding = kleshas = ignorance, attachment, aversion. Remove the kleshas ... and that chunk goes away. And all you are left with are the emotions that arise from right understanding: joy, compassion, etc.

So Buddhism doesn't try to transcend or disempower emotions at all. It removes the kleshas ... and the result of this is that the "negative" emotions stop arising.

Sound about right?
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seeker242
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Re: Metta

Post by seeker242 »

Are there any Buddhas that are without all embracing metta? I don't think so! This tells me that metta is an inevitable product of awakening and always results in metta manifesting.

:anjali:
One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!
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Rick
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Re: Metta

Post by Rick »

But that could be because their practices all required the cultivation of metta, not because metta arose from awakening.
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Ayu
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Re: Metta

Post by Ayu »

I heard the saying: "Compassion and Emptyness are inseparable."
IMO a realisation of emptyness without simultaniously arising of metta can not be the real thing yet.
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Rick
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Re: Metta

Post by Rick »

That seems to be the consensus opinion among Buddhists ... the ones I've talked to, in any case.

I'm just inquiring into it here, wondering if it's true, why it's true, what it means for practice, etc.
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Ayu
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Re: Metta

Post by Ayu »

rachmiel wrote:
Jesse wrote:Depends what kind of awakening you mean. In Buddhism all thing's are marked by selflessness. So awakening in that sense should be non-duality. Also an awakened being has no more defilement's, which means no more destructive emotions, so such a being would be joyous and compassionate all the time.

So without a self, all things, and beings are embraced with that compassion.
That's helpful, thanks.

It sounds to me that you're saying something like this:

Humans experience a wide spectrum of emotions. But a big chunk of this spectrum — anger, jealousy, anxiety, etc. — arises from wrong understanding = kleshas = ignorance, attachment, aversion. Remove the kleshas ... and that chunk goes away. And all you are left with are the emotions that arise from right understanding: joy, compassion, etc.

So Buddhism doesn't try to transcend or disempower emotions at all. It removes the kleshas ... and the result of this is that the "negative" emotions stop arising.

Sound about right?
In my ears it sounds right. Well said.
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Ayu
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Re: Metta

Post by Ayu »

rachmiel wrote:That seems to be the consensus opinion among Buddhists ... the ones I've talked to, in any case.

I'm just inquiring into it here, wondering if it's true, why it's true, what it means for practice, etc.
Means you are asking for text-sources instead of personel experiences or opinions?
I'll give one, if it comes my way.
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Rick
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Re: Metta

Post by Rick »

Text sources would be good, thanks. Personal experiences, opinions also always welcome.
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lorem
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Re: Metta

Post by lorem »

If the rest of humanity and I
Wish to attain unsurpassable awakening,
The basis for this is bodhicitta
As stable as the King of Mountains;
Compassion, which touches everything,
And pristine wisdom, which does not rely on duality. Nagarjuna
He who desires shelter quickly
For himself and for all others
Should use this sacred mystery,
The exchanging of oneself for others. Shantideva
The Great Path of Awakening, Jamgon Kongtrul
I should be meditating.
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LastLegend
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Re: Metta

Post by LastLegend »

I have no metta because my mind is empty. :lol:
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Dan74
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Re: Metta

Post by Dan74 »

rachmiel wrote:Something I've wondered about for a long time:

Is metta — loving-kindness — an inevitable product of awakening? I.e. does awakening always result in metta manifesting?

Or is awakening a profound peace and clarity into which the "flavour" of metta is infused through intentional practice?

In my experience of moments of deep awareness, what I experience is profound peace and clarity. In that peace is "space" for metta ... but the peace is not an embodiment of metta. It's ... peace.
I think if we take our vows seriously, then definitely. For Theravada, it depends. Some people seem to put a great deal of energy into teaching tirelessly, working hard, clearly motivated by metta and karuna. Others are content to 'disappear' and be left alone. :shrug:
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lorem
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Re: Metta

Post by lorem »

rachmiel wrote:Something I've wondered about for a long time:

Is metta — loving-kindness — an inevitable product of awakening?
Oops I just went meta-->loving-kindness-->bodhicitta in my mind without noticing the forum.

No, think metta needs to be cultivated. You can cultivate panna w/out metta. But I feel at some point in your spiritual journey they do become inseparable.
I should be meditating.
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Ayu
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Re: Metta

Post by Ayu »

I found a huge text source:
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... tudes.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It shows the view on metta is quite different in different buddhist traditions. But all of them seem to think, metta has to be cultivated before it can arise naturally.
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Re: Metta

Post by Punya »

Something I've wondered about for a long time: Is metta — loving-kindness — an inevitable product of awakening? I.e. does awakening always result in metta manifesting? Or is awakening a profound peace and clarity into which the "flavour" of metta is infused through intentional practice? 
My understanding is that compassion naturally arises in a buddha, which perfect sense to me. With seeing things exactly as they are, how could it not? Intentional practice and "infusing" just sound like relative states. It might create some merit but that's about all.
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Re: Metta

Post by kirtu »

rachmiel wrote:But that could be because their practices all required the cultivation of metta, not because metta arose from awakening.
Metta inevitably arises spontaneously from awakening. And it begins to do so well before full awakening - in fact well before the 1st bhumi for example. When it arises, however, depends on the individual.

Kirt
“Where do atomic bombs come from?”
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

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kirtu
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Re: Metta

Post by kirtu »

Ayu wrote:I found a huge text source:
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... tudes.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It shows the view on metta is quite different in different buddhist traditions. But all of them seem to think, metta has to be cultivated before it can arise naturally.
Metta does have to be cultivated but at a certain point it begins to arise spontaneously. This can happen even before a person begins to practice formally (in childhood for example). Then metta practice strenghtens this tendency for metta to manifest.

Kirt
“Where do atomic bombs come from?”
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
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