garudha wrote:So (1) If a pure land is conceptualized it could exist but would be outside of ones perception (dualism), and , (2) if a pure land
not conceptualized then it doesn't exist and becomes part of ones own experience (non-dual).
Seems like a magic cat in a box to me.
Was kind of hoping someone else could answer this that is more intelligent than I am, but I figured since you haven't gotten a response, I would take a stab....
In response to (1):
Since the adornments of the Pure Land constitute the 37 attributes of enlightenment and would already be present in one's own mindstream (to varying degrees), the fact that the sum total could not be perceived at one's current unenlightened state, does not mean that any attributes would be completely out of the bounds of ones perception.
The adornments of the Pure Land include the 37 limbs of enlightenment, which consist of:
Four frames of reference:
Contemplation of the body (kayanupassana, S. kayānupasthāna)
Contemplation of feelings (vedananupassana, S. vedanānupasthāna)
Contemplation of consciousness (cittanupassana, S. cittanupasthāna)
Contemplation of mental qualities (dhammanupassana, S. dharmanupasthāna)
Four right exertions:
Exertion for the preventing of non-arising of unskillful states to arise
Exertion for the abandoning of the already arisen unskillful states
Exertion for the arising of skillful states
Exertion for the sustaining and increasing of arisen skillful states
Four bases of power:
Will (chanda, S. chanda)
Energy (viriya, S. virya)
Consciousness (citta, S. citta)
Discrimination (vimamsa or vīmaŋsā, S. mimāṃsā)
Five Faculties:
Faith (saddha, S. śraddā)
Energy (viriya, s. virya)
Mindfulness (sati, S. smṛti)
Concentration (samadhi, S. samādhi)
Wisdom (panna, S. prajñā)
Five established powers:
Faith (saddha, S. śraddā)
Energy (viriya, S. virya)
Mindfulness (sati, S. smṛti)
Concentration (samadhi, S. samādhi)
Wisdom (panna, S. prajñā)
Seven factors of Enlightenment:
Mindfulness (sati, S. smṛti)
Investigation (dhamma vicaya, S. dharmapravicaya)
Energy (viriya, S. virya)
Joy (pīti, S. prīti)
Tranquility (passaddhi, S. praśrabdhi)
Concentration (samadhi, S. samādhi)
Equanimity (upekkha, S. upekṣā)
Noble 8 fold path:
Right View (samma ditthi, S. samyag-dṛṣṭi)
Right Intention (samma sankappa, S. samyak-saṃkalpa)
Right Speech (samma vacca, S. samyag-vāc)
Right Action (samma kammanta, S. samyak-karmānta)
Right Livelihood (samma ajiva, S. samyag-ājīva)
Right Energy (samma vayama, S. samyag-vyāyāma)
Right Mindfulness (samma sati, S. samyak-smṛti)
Right Concentration (samma samadhi, S. samyak-samādhi)
-the point is that any of these could be present (albeit in latent form) in one's conscious or subconscious thought means that even if one could not completely perceive the Pure Lands, then one should be able to perceive parts or all of any of the above as latent tendencies of one's mind stream. This means that one would not be in a situation where one would be completely unable to perceive any aspects of the Pure Land in one's normal thinking, thus rendering your first assertion false.
The assertion that:
(2) if a pure land
not conceptualized then it doesn't exist and becomes part of ones own experience (non-dual).
Means that one can only respond with the idea that:
None of the attributes listed above rely on the fact that they are conceptualized.
Thus, your second assertion is also false.