What did Master Hsuan Hua mean about putting an end to love?

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What did Master Hsuan Hua mean about putting an end to love?

Postby Sonrisa » Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:00 am

I was reading some teachings from Ven. Master Hsuan Hua and read that he said: We must first let go of our desires and put and end to love. I might be paraphrasing. But...does anyone know what it meant? Certainly, it doesnt mean hate and not love?
Namo Amitabha
Namo Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva
Namo Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva

May I continue to practice loving-kindness and compassion for sentient beings. May my friends and loved ones be free from suffering. May those who have hurt me also be free from suffering.

Hatred is like throwing cow dung at someone else. You get dirty first before throwing it to someone else.
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Re: putting an end to love

Postby Will » Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:45 am

By 'love' he means deep romantic or sexual attachment.
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
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Re: putting an end to love

Postby Sonrisa » Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:20 am

Will wrote:By 'love' he means deep romantic or sexual attachment.



I understand...sort of. I remember reading pne teaching where he said that we're born out of sexual desire. While I think that extreme sexual desire can be a hindrance, but if it wasnt for our parents engaging in intercourse, we wouldnt be here cultivating. Forgive me if Im misinterpreting this.
Namo Amitabha
Namo Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva
Namo Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva

May I continue to practice loving-kindness and compassion for sentient beings. May my friends and loved ones be free from suffering. May those who have hurt me also be free from suffering.

Hatred is like throwing cow dung at someone else. You get dirty first before throwing it to someone else.
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Re: putting an end to love

Postby Astus » Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:29 pm

Sonrisa wrote:I understand...sort of. I remember reading pne teaching where he said that we're born out of sexual desire. While I think that extreme sexual desire can be a hindrance, but if it wasnt for our parents engaging in intercourse, we wouldnt be here cultivating. Forgive me if Im misinterpreting this.


There are three conditions for birth: mother, father, karma. Now, our birth is because of our karma, and the mother and father are conditions for the body. So, if we had had no desire/attachment to be born, we would not have been born.
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T51n2076, p461b24-26)
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Re: What did Master Hsuan Hua mean about putting an end to l

Postby Will » Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:05 pm

That sexual attachment is a major factor in continuing samsara is obvious. So leaving that behind is an obvious great help in becoming liberated from cyclic existence.

Celibacy has helped countless people become liberated. The worry about ending humanity because of non-attachment to craving for copulation is silly. It has not happened over countless kalpas and buddhas and it will not happen in future. There will always be enough seeds planted to sprout human beings. Even our Prince, before he became Buddha, produced Rahula. So relax... life goes on.
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
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Re: What did Master Hsuan Hua mean about putting an end to l

Postby Huifeng » Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:16 pm

Sonrisa wrote:I was reading some teachings from Ven. Master Hsuan Hua and read that he said: We must first let go of our desires and put and end to love. I might be paraphrasing. But...does anyone know what it meant? Certainly, it doesnt mean hate and not love?


Have to get back to the Chinese for this one. In modern Chinese, the character ai 愛 is "love"; however, in classical Chinese Buddhist texts, 愛 translates "trsna", lust, craving, desire, etc. Master is saying "put an end to lust".

This confusion from the Chinese to English comes up in English from time to time.

~~Huifeng
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Re: What did Master Hsuan Hua mean about putting an end to l

Postby Sonrisa » Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:46 pm

Huifeng wrote:
Sonrisa wrote:I was reading some teachings from Ven. Master Hsuan Hua and read that he said: We must first let go of our desires and put and end to love. I might be paraphrasing. But...does anyone know what it meant? Certainly, it doesnt mean hate and not love?


Have to get back to the Chinese for this one. In modern Chinese, the character ai 愛 is "love"; however, in classical Chinese Buddhist texts, 愛 translates "trsna", lust, craving, desire, etc. Master is saying "put an end to lust".

This confusion from the Chinese to English comes up in English from time to time.

~~Huifeng


Ven. Huifeng...thank you! I really dont know what else to say :anjali: I know someone who can read Chinese (I cant) and he told me the same thing you said, that some of the Master's teachings are really a second-hand translation so there are confusions from time to time.

Anyway, thank you everyone for clearing this up. I was confused about it :smile:

Also, what about attachments like friendships and such? Can they also be a form of suffering? The reason Im asking is because I am someone who experiences HUGE rushes of nostalgia, almost to the point of wishing I can turn back time, but in the end, I only find myself getting upset. I can't just cut off human contact as a lay person and tell my friends I dont want to see them anymore >_<
Namo Amitabha
Namo Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva
Namo Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva

May I continue to practice loving-kindness and compassion for sentient beings. May my friends and loved ones be free from suffering. May those who have hurt me also be free from suffering.

Hatred is like throwing cow dung at someone else. You get dirty first before throwing it to someone else.
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Re: What did Master Hsuan Hua mean about putting an end to l

Postby Huifeng » Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:47 pm

If one wants to say the basic equivalent of "love" in Buddhist Chinese, then one uses (mainly) 慈 ci and 悲 bei, from "maitri" and "karuna", loving kindness and compassion; or maybe 憐憫 lianmin, sympathy; something like that. One doesn't use 愛 ai.

Maybe this is why recently there have been a string of articles on the 'net about Chinese people don't say "I love you", but only restricting their analysis to this one Chinese term, and ignoring a host of other related phrases. Sorry, I digress...

~~Huifeng
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Re: What did Master Hsuan Hua mean about putting an end to l

Postby seeker242 » Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:48 pm

Sonrisa wrote:
Also, what about attachments like friendships and such? Can they also be a form of suffering? The reason Im asking is because I am someone who experiences HUGE rushes of nostalgia, almost to the point of wishing I can turn back time, but in the end, I only find myself getting upset.


Seems to me you just answered your own question. :)

I can't just cut off human contact as a lay person and tell my friends I dont want to see them anymore >_<


I think there is another option. :smile: To see friends with wisdom, compassion, etc. instead of desiring and wanting, etc. Mostly because the seeing friend part is not what causes the problem. Cutting off contact would not work anyway as the desires would still be there. If you cut off all contact, you would still desire to see them and you would suffer because you can't. So that would not work IMO. It's the desire/wanting part that causes the problems. For example, Thich Nhat Hanh has many, many friends, but he does not suffer because of that. The Buddha had many friends but did not suffer because of that. So it can't be that having friends is what causes the problem. When you approach friends with genuine metta, etc. instead of wanting, then no problem. How it seems to me anyway. :smile:
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