Shin Buddhism vs Nichiren Shōshū

Whether you're exploring Buddhism for the first time or you're already on the path, feel free to ask questions of any kind here.

Shin Buddhism vs Nichiren Shōshū

Postby Kyosuke » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:56 pm

I'm new here and just starting to explore Buddhism so I'm sure this might come off as a dumb question but what are the differences between Jōdo Shinshū vs Nichiren Shōshū. I have both temples near me. What would be for someone not sure where to begin?
Kyosuke
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:19 am

Re: Shin Buddhism vs Nichiren Shōshū

Postby dude » Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:41 am

Go to both and ask a lot of questions.
These two schools have been opposed to each other for a very long time.
dude
 
Posts: 552
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:38 am

Re: Shin Buddhism vs Nichiren Shōshū

Postby kirtu » Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:03 am

I was hoping that rory or others would respond to this ...

Jodo Shu is a Japanese Pure Land school. The focus is gratitude for Amida Buddha (Amitabha) fullfilling his vows and creating method whereby foolish beings in our age can be reborn in Amida's Pure Land and attain enlightenment there.

Nichiren Buddhism focuses on practice based on the Lotus Sutra.

Both schools began from founders who left Mt. Hiei and Tendai Buddhism in the Kamakura period of Japanese history. During this period, people in Japan were looking for a single (simple) method of practice. This framed all the Japanese schools that descend from Tendai Buddhism including most Zen schools.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
User avatar
kirtu
Former staff member
 
Posts: 4460
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Shin Buddhism vs Nichiren Shōshū

Postby rory » Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:46 am

Sorry I was busy. Okay to boil it down the big divide is between self-power jiriki and other-power tariki. Jodo Shinshu is all about tariki and the saving power of Amida Buddha. As a helpless human with afflictions it's impossible for you to attain enlightenment without Amida and his vow. You chant nenbutsu out of gratitude.

Nichiren is jiriki as you chant the powerful Odaimoku to achieve enlightenment. Nichiren Shoshu additionally relies on hongaku theory (you are originally a buddha) and belives Nichiren replaced Shakyamuni as the Buddha.
I've practiced both , I remain firmly in the Tendai-NIchiren camp.

hope that's helpful
gassho
Rory
Dharani of Amoghapasa Avalokitesvara:

Om amogha-padma-pasa-krodhakarsaya praveshaya maha-pashupati-yama-varuna-kuvera
brahma-vesa-dhara padma-kula-samayan hum hum

heart mantra: Om amogha vijaya hum phat
User avatar
rory
 
Posts: 694
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 8:08 am
Location: SouthEast USA

Re: Shin Buddhism vs Nichiren Shōshū

Postby PorkChop » Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:00 pm

I actually have a different understanding of the Jōdo Shinshū teachings of Bombu (deluded being) and the concept of Tariki (power other than self), as I was just telling someone else recently. I'm not sure where in the presentation this is getting confused - whether locally, or a misinterpretation of the texts, but the teachings of one's Bombu nature are not to be taken as an apriori belief. You should not be trying to convince yourself that you are a Bombu and that you are powerless. The concept of Mappō (Dharma-ending age) is also not an apriori belief. The idea of Bombu is to take a hard, honest look at the motivations behind your thoughts, words, and actions to see whether or not those motivations are tainted by greed & anger. Interestingly, I've heard of Zen people coming to this same conclusion after years of practice. The idea behind Mappō is to take a serious inventory of one's capacities for practice and see if they are any where near those sages of old, to see where one's karma has led up to this point and if it's such that it's conducive for practice. Realizing that your motivations are tainted and your capacities for practice are limited, the next step logically, is to realize that embracing tainted motivations will never make one free of taints. Rather, embracing tainted self-power (Jiriki) will reify the tainted self. At this point, knowing the self to be tainted, you rely on "power other than self" (Tariki). This is in line with Zen master Dogen's words in the Genjokoan: "To study the Way is to study the Self. To study the Self is to forget the self. To forget the self is to be enlightened by all things of the universe. To be enlightened by all things of the universe is to cast off the body and mind of the self as well as those of others. Even the traces of enlightenment are wiped out, and life with traceless enlightenment goes on forever and ever." Aside from this brutal self-evaluation to root out one's motivations and the reliance on power-other-than-self, Jōdo Shinshū followers engage in deep listening (to see the workings of great compassion in one's life) and cultivate feelings of gratitude for the supporting causes & conditions in one's life. However, Jōdo Shinshū does not refer to these activities as "practice", as the work has already been done (again, echoes of the doctrines of other schools such as "practice of no practice" or "practice without grasping", and the Tendai doctrine of Original Enlightenment).

If, however, you come to the opposite conclusion that your motivations are pure and your capacities for practice are great, then following another path is proscribed. While Jōdo Shinshū exclusively embraces Tariki (power-other-than-self), it's cousin Jōdo Shū (more closely aligned with Jōdo Shinshū's founder's teacher) is a bit more of a balance between Tariki and Jiriki (self-power). In fact, almost all forms of Buddhism use a balance between the two (in Zen, the faith is in the practice or in Big Mind, according to Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind).

Since we're talking Nichiren Shōshū, as opposed to Nichiren Shū, I think it's important to point out Nichiren Shōshū's concept of their founder Nichiren. To quote the wiki article, "Nichiren Shōshū teaches that Nichiren Daishōnin is the True Buddha and that his Dharma, or Mystic Law (Myōhō: mystic in the sense of profound, sublime, or unfathomable), is the True Buddha's ultimate teaching. Nichiren Shōshū's belief of Nichiren Daishōnin being the True Buddha is its reason for referring to him as Nichiren Daishōnin ("Great Sage Nichiren")." This particular doctrine is no less removed from Tendai praxis than solely relying on power-other-than-self (Tariki). Also, Nichiren Shōshū is not strictly self-power, but a balance of self-power (gyōriki - lit. practice-power) and faith-power (shinriki). The faith aspect comes in the power of the Buddha (butsuriki) and the power of the Dharma (Law) inherent in the Gohonzon (hōriki).
User avatar
PorkChop
 
Posts: 843
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:17 pm

Re: Shin Buddhism vs Nichiren Shōshū

Postby theanarchist » Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:35 pm

rory wrote:Sorry I was busy. Okay to boil it down the big divide is between self-power jiriki and other-power tariki. Jodo Shinshu is all about tariki and the saving power of Amida Buddha. As a helpless human with afflictions it's impossible for you to attain enlightenment without Amida and his vow. You chant nenbutsu out of gratitude.



Wow. That sounds rather christian...
theanarchist
 
Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:26 pm

Re: Shin Buddhism vs Nichiren Shōshū

Postby PorkChop » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:19 pm

theanarchist wrote:
rory wrote:Sorry I was busy. Okay to boil it down the big divide is between self-power jiriki and other-power tariki. Jodo Shinshu is all about tariki and the saving power of Amida Buddha. As a helpless human with afflictions it's impossible for you to attain enlightenment without Amida and his vow. You chant nenbutsu out of gratitude.

Wow. That sounds rather christian...


I guess it could in some ways be similar to Martin Luther/Lutheranism, except that Shinran was born over 300 years earlier; but the differences are quite significant. For starters, the Christian take is grounded in a rather sharp dualism, while Jōdo Shinshū fits perfectly within the backdrop of Mahayana Buddhism.
Nagarjuna's 'Mulamadhyamaka Karika' wrote:When there is grasping, the grasper Comes into existence. If he did not grasp, Then being freed, he would not come into existence.
User avatar
PorkChop
 
Posts: 843
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:17 pm


Return to Exploring Buddhism

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests

>