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 Post subject: Ngondro in Dzogchen
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:58 pm 
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ChNN performed practices Ngondro twice
but they are not required in the Dzogchen
provided that the student has the highest ability.

I'm not at such a high level
So what should I do?

If I do not get the blessing from the master
then my preliminary practices Nyndro,will not produce effects.

Do ChNN ever gave blessings / lung for their students with lower abilities
to practices Ngondro ?

Or maybe someone who does not reveal the nature of mind
during direct introduction
should forget about Dzogchen
and practicing other teaching from another school?

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I am from Poland I use google translator I do not know English


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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro in Dzogchen
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:18 pm 
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Posts: 18
Snovid wrote:
ChNN performed practices Ngondro twice
but they are not required in the Dzogchen
provided that the student has the highest ability.

I'm not at such a high level
So what should I do?



Find a master who will guide you through Ngondro with a track towards Dzogchen.

ChNN isn't the only one out there.

Quote:
If I do not get the blessing from the master
then my preliminary practices Nyndro,will not produce effects.


True.

Quote:
Do ChNN ever gave blessings / lung for their students with lower abilities
to practices Ngondro ?


Perhaps someone from the Community will chime in .....

Quote:
Or maybe someone who does not reveal the nature of mind
during direct introduction
should forget about Dzogchen
and practicing other teaching from another school?


Nothing wrong with that. Pointing-out in a Mahamudra context is about the nature of mind, too.


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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro in Dzogchen
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:04 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am
Posts: 2193
I'm with you on this one.

ChNN's position is that any practice can be done from the Dzogchen perspective. So even if you haven't "got it" you can do NgonDro with that understanding. But aside from that, other teachers start people on NgonDro after they have taken Refuge and one Vajrayana empowerment. Then they are usually given permission. The Vajrasattva empowerment is recommended before that practice is undertaken. In any case don't skip the contemplations on the 4 thoughts that turn the mind. They are designed to get you barking up the right tree.

You don't have to do the prostrations all at one time. The Nyingmas have a wonderful system where you choose how much of which practice you do each sitting. So you might do 0 prostrations, 100 Vajrasattva, 0 mandalas, and 100 Guru-yogas. Or you can start out with Guru-yoga, which ChNN emphasizes. Each sitting you decide how much of each to do. That keeps the physicality of prostration back as an impediment.

Hope that helps.

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A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN


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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro in Dzogchen
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:59 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:58 pm
Posts: 630
If you understand ChNNR's teaching, he really does teach a kind of ngondro,
and really does encourage purification such as vajrasattva to enhance clarity.

So, you may receive ngondro lung from nearly any Nyingma or Kagyu Lama--
or even from a practitioner who has the lung and ideally has completed one
or more sets. A monk, a ngakpa, a three year retreat graduate, a vajra-
brother or sister ... quite a lot of people could give it. Empowerment
is not always required, just lung.


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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro in Dzogchen
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:17 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am
Posts: 2193
ngodrup wrote:
If you understand ChNNR's teaching, he really does teach a kind of ngondro,
and really does encourage purification such as vajrasattva to enhance clarity.

And as a footnote, Garab Dorje was said to have received the Dzogchen teachings from Vajrasattva. So if it was good enough for GD, it is good enough for me!

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A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN


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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro in Dzogchen
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:33 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:10 pm
Posts: 216
Thanks :)
I found few communities,but I want ask about this teachers,I dont want start with someone who are...how to say.

The point is that I do not want to be part of a controversial sect etc
or belong to the school that has the smallest common elements
with my favourite paths like Bon, Dzogchen,Mahamudra,Nyingma
I would like to go in that direction.



Here is what I found:

http://yeshekhorlo.mahajana.net/categor ... uczyciele/

http://patrulrinpoche.pl/index.php?opti ... Itemid=114

http://www.buddyzm.pl/pl/nauczyciele

http://www.garchen.pl/?page_id=11

http://www.benchen.org.pl/en/nauczyciele

I wrote to all about Ngondro and Im waiting for reply .

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I am from Poland I use google translator I do not know English


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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro in Dzogchen
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:21 pm 
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Posts: 354
Gangteng Rinpoche is a very fine lama who holds important Nyingma and Dzogchen lineages; in fact i believe he is even said to be an incarnation of Longchenpa. So if you have a good connection with the centre in Poland (Yeshe Khorlo) you would be in very good hands with him.


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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro in Dzogchen
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:42 pm 
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Garchen Rinpoche is truly a great realized Bodhisattva and Dzogchenpa, in my humble
view. If he visits that center I couldn't recommend highly enough making a connection with him.
I'm sure he'd give you any lung you requested.

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Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha


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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro in Dzogchen
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:50 am 
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smcj wrote:
ngodrup wrote:
If you understand ChNNR's teaching, he really does teach a kind of ngondro,
and really does encourage purification such as vajrasattva to enhance clarity.

And as a footnote, Garab Dorje was said to have received the Dzogchen teachings from Vajrasattva. So if it was good enough for GD, it is good enough for me!


Do not see the link? It is not said that GD did ngondro? ... in fact he did'nt ...
DC purification practice (5 elements) is not what could be called ngondro ...

Sönam

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By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -


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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro in Dzogchen
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:04 am 
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Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am
Posts: 2193
Sönam wrote:
Do not see the link? It is not said that GD did ngondro? ... in fact he did'nt ...

I did not say Garab Dorje did NgonDro. I said that Garab Dorje got Dzogchen from Vajrasattva. Now I doubt that the Vajrasattva practice Garab Dorje did was the yogatantra level practice that say the Kagyus do in NgonDro, but it was the deity Vajrasattva nevertheless. That statement could also be re-phrased as Garab Dorje was Vajrasattva, but when practicing HYT the distinction becomes moot.

On a completely separate note, I've heard it said (sorry, don't have the reference at my fingertips) that if one has the right karma one can become enlightened by practicing NgonDro.

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A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN


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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro in Dzogchen
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:58 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:11 pm
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smcj wrote:

On a completely separate note, I've heard it said (sorry, don't have the reference at my fingertips) that if one has the right karma one can become enlightened by practicing NgonDro.


There is no limitation ... everything is in the field of the possible.

Sönam

_________________
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -


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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro in Dzogchen
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:05 am 
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smcj wrote:
On a completely separate note, I've heard it said (sorry, don't have the reference at my fingertips) that if one has the right karma one can become enlightened by practicing NgonDro.

Yea, ngondro is generally considered to be a "complete path."


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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro in Dzogchen
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:06 am 
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on a side note ...

Instructions on How Intellectually Created Meditation Vitiates the Mind
Through the elaborate training of the development and perfection stages, the nature which is spontaneously present from primordial time will not be realized but will be deviated from, and the nature which is beyond rejections and acceptances will not be seen. So one has to reach (La-bZa-Ba) the great perfection of spontaneously present equality. ... In nature (gShis) there is no path in which to be trained

- Longchen Rabjam - Shingta Chenpo -

_________________
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -


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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro in Dzogchen
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:51 am 
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Just thinking......if we should give the human world a name it could be the world of ‘ is and is not ’. And therefore we humans have that language tool to realize nature not conditioned 'by is and is not'. And no rejection, acception like said here.

It is clear that the tools, methods and so on are not :oops: to be choosen out in the supermarket, but it all depends on own mind.

:focus:

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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro in Dzogchen
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:18 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am
Posts: 2552
smcj wrote:
ngodrup wrote:
If you understand ChNNR's teaching, he really does teach a kind of ngondro,
and really does encourage purification such as vajrasattva to enhance clarity.

And as a footnote, Garab Dorje was said to have received the Dzogchen teachings from Vajrasattva. So if it was good enough for GD, it is good enough for me!

In a sense so does everyone else...


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 Post subject: Re: Ngondro in Dzogchen
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:49 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:10 pm
Posts: 216
I'm shocked
I did not expect that what I experienced
I will not write who and how disappointed and shock me
I do not want to do unnecessary advertising peoples who do not need it.

Any way,only Garchen Institute and Benchen they were receptive to my request
only they are trying to help me.

Others gave me to understand that I have panhandle for help
This is mockery.


"If you want to do Ngondro,just do it yourself" :jawdrop:

or

"Determining a kind of achievement goals in the rainbow
body so it's cool
but it's as if you said he wants to do some walking after the moon.
Think about it what I wrote if you want
but it does not make sense for us discussed".
:applause:

Gold thought:
You want to practice?
You should not
If you want to practice
this means that you should not :rolleye:

(unless you have money,then we invite)

Practices are intended only for those who are not interested in them - Electronic Web Sutra :crazy:


Too many western contemporaries buddhists
they are more buddist than Buddha.
More papal than the Pope

This is not only my opinion but many people who have experienced similar adventures.
I do not know from what this results and I dont want to know.

_________________
I am from Poland I use google translator I do not know English


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