Malcolm wrote:That is not a problem in the slightest. Anything that arises from causes and conditions has no essence. Being nondependent on mind does not render something inherently existent.
Anything that arises also has parts. If you think about this carefully you will discover that this precisely DOES mean that "Being nondependent on mind" renders "something inherently existent."
As it turns out, you are a realist. Who knew?
Vasubandhu's presentation is the one that Madhyamakas subscribe to conventionally. The point is that even Candrakirti accepts that for an eye consciousness to be generated, the eye consciousness depends on an external form.
yes, but you need to acknowledge that Madhyamakas can use this presentation without importing that which is incorrect within the system. Chandrakirti accepts that an external object is necessary, but he certainly doesn't accept that an inherent object is necessary, so again you are stuck trying to present an external that is not inherent, while claiming that external also means non-dependent on mind. You have a problem.
According to your presentation, forms depend solely on consciousness and could never be asserted to exist externally, and as you stated, would not need eyes to be perceived. This would then render all sense organs nonfunctional and unnecessary. But there are so many negative consequences to this I could not possibly list them all.
I did say they could exist externally, one just needs to understand this in a way that does not force one into a position of asserting essences.
I never said forms would not need eyes. When I said " do not need organs, i was thinking of formless beings who would only have a mental power, your awkward use of "organs" to render "power" was misleading. The consequences you draw on the basis of misunderstanding do nothing to affect the discussion
Malcolm wrote:You need to explain the karmic cause of such a storm.
Buddha explained that karmic causes are inconceivable, I have no idea the specifics of how such a storm would be created. They are created by the collective karma of the beings experiencing the storm.
Malcolm wrote:The assertion that appearances and objects are identical is mistaken. If this were the case, there could be no common basis for the imputation of liquids by beings of the six realms.
objects are mere appearances. There is no basis that is not appearance, as you cogently explain here....
Malcolm wrote:The Madhyamaka project is to show that as long as one insists that there is an ultimate basis of imputation beyond mere appearances, for that long one will be locked into conceptuality.
If you say that there is a conventional
basis that is beyond mere appearance, you will demonstrate that you do not understand the meaning of convention.