Tenzin Dorje wrote:kirtu wrote:I explicitly referred to Arya and non-Arya Bodhisattvas in my posting.Tenzin Dorje wrote:Good questions. I would tend to make something of kirtu's division into : (1) arya Bodhisattvas, and (2) ordinary ones.
You did indeed, and this is what I meant.
Sorry - my eyesight is pretty bad and I misread it.
Tenzin Dorje wrote:kirtu wrote:No, they would not have necessarily actually matured Shantideva's teachings on this. Taking and seriously holding the Bodhisattva Vows as an intention is sufficient.
Bodhisattva on the Mahayana path would necessarily have the uncontrived bodhicitta, whether aspiring or engaging, because uncontrived bodhicitta is the entry gate to the Mahayana path.
A Bodisattva on the Mahayana path doesn't necessarily have to have generated uncontrived bodhicitta. In the beginning most people can't generate uncontrived wishing bodhicitta because they don't have a good idea of what that means. I would venture that all bodhicitta raised on the Path of Accumulation is probably contrived (until the end).
Nonetheless people can have entered the Mahayana path because their inclination or intention will develop more fully in that direction and they intellectually at least wish to liberate all beings.
Perhaps this is a matter of understanding Gelug terminology?
Tenzin Dorje wrote:Furthermore, Bodhisattvas don't necessarily hold the Bodhisattva vows, because it is necessarily (to hold these vows) only for those who generated the ucontrived engaging bodhicitta, not the aspiring one. (cf. Lam Rim Chen Mo)
I'll have to look this up in the Lamrim Chenmo. It seems quite a bit to require sentient beings wishing to practice the Mahayana to first generate uncontrived bodhicitta before they have entered the path.
Tenzin Dorje wrote:Your posting makes me think that you referred to Bodhisattvas that are not on the Mahayana path. Is it the case ?