Locality of nibbanna

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Locality of nibbanna

Postby flowerbudh » Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:44 am

Nirvana, I assume, transcends time and space, so in that sense, can one who attains it still accurately be called a 'human' being, one who dwells in this Earth? Or in this universe, for that matter, where nothing is permanent?
Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without. - The Buddha
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Re: Locality of nibbanna

Postby invisiblediamond » Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:52 am

Nope. BTW. In the heart.
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Re: Locality of nibbanna

Postby dude » Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:16 am

Right. Nirvana isn't some other place you go to.
It's an inherent state of life that is in all living beings.
Nagarjuna said "Nirvana is this life itself."
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Re: Locality of nibbanna

Postby flowerbudh » Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:38 am

Oh. I did not know this. Tell me more! :)
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Re: Locality of nibbanna

Postby flowerbudh » Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:41 am

According to BuddhaNet (idk if this is a reliable source or not):

"It is a dimension transcending time and space and thus is difficult to talk about or even think about. Words and thoughts being only suited to describe the time-space dimension. But because Nirvana is beyond time, there is no movement and so no aging or dying. Thus Nirvana is eternal because it is beyond space, there is no causation, no boundary, no concept of self and not-self and thus Nirvana is infinite. The Buddha also assures us that Nirvana is an experience of great happiness. He says:
Nirvana is the highest happiness.

Dhammapada 204"

In this way, I came to my conclusion that nirvana is beyond human comprehension, and thus, 'inhuman' in some regard. I could be completely wrong, so please enlighten me.
Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without. - The Buddha
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Re: Locality of nibbanna

Postby Huifeng » Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:42 am

flowerbudh wrote:Nirvana, I assume, transcends time and space, so in that sense, can one who attains it still accurately be called a 'human' being, one who dwells in this Earth? Or in this universe, for that matter, where nothing is permanent?


Maybe keep in mind the basic metaphorical meaning of the term nirvana, the extinguishing of a flame. To ask where the flame goes, either in time or space, may not really be the right question to ask. And likewise ideas subsequently based on that. Easy to forget this basic metaphorical meaning, in particular if we don't know Indic languages and never translate, but only use the romanized term "nirvana".

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Re: Locality of nibbanna

Postby Huifeng » Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:44 am

flowerbudh wrote:According to BuddhaNet (idk if this is a reliable source or not):

"It is a dimension transcending time and space and thus is difficult to talk about or even think about. Words and thoughts being only suited to describe the time-space dimension. But because Nirvana is beyond time, there is no movement and so no aging or dying. Thus Nirvana is eternal because it is beyond space, there is no causation, no boundary, no concept of self and not-self and thus Nirvana is infinite. The Buddha also assures us that Nirvana is an experience of great happiness. He says:
Nirvana is the highest happiness.

Dhammapada 204"

In this way, I came to my conclusion that nirvana is beyond human comprehension, and thus, 'inhuman' in some regard. I could be completely wrong, so please enlighten me.


This totally sounds like a late commentarial interpretation of the notion of nirvana from an abhidhammic tradition, which really did posit nirvana as a "substantial thing" (dravyasat dharma). Everything starts to go down the metaphysical plug hole afterwards... use such a definition with caution.

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Re: Locality of nibbanna

Postby hop.pala » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:23 am

, "This fire is burning in front of me"?'

'...yes...'

'And suppose someone were to ask you, Vaccha, "This fire burning in front of you, dependent on what is it burning?" Thus asked, how would you reply?'

'...I would reply, "This fire burning in front of me is burning dependent on grass & timber as its sustenance."'

'If the fire burning in front of you were to go out, would you know that "This fire burning in front of me has gone out"?'

'...yes...'

'And suppose someone were to ask you, "This fire that has gone out in front of you, in which direction from here has it gone? East? West? North? Or south?" Thus asked, how would you reply?'

'That doesn't apply, Venerable Gotama. Any fire burning dependent on a sustenance of grass & timber, being unnourished — from having consumed that sustenance and not being offered any other — is classified simply as "out" [nibbuto].'

'Even so, Vaccha, any form by which one describing the Tathāgata would describe him: That the Tathāgata has abandoned, its root destroyed, made like a palmyra stump, deprived of the conditions of existence, not destined for future arising. Freed from the classification of form, Vaccha, the Tathāgata is deep, boundless, hard-to-fathom, like the sea. "Reappears" doesn't apply. "Does not reappear" doesn't apply. "Both does & does not reappear" doesn't apply. "Neither reappears nor does not reappear" doesn't apply.

'Any feeling... Any perception... Any fabrication..."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... e/2-1.html
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Re: Locality of nibbanna

Postby Berry » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:58 am

Hi flowerbudh

Nirvana isn't another place we go to, nor is it something magical that happens.

The word literally means "blown out" (as in a candle) and refers, in the Buddhist context, to the imperturbable stillness of mind after the fires of desire, aversion, and delusion have been finally extinguished

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana




:meditate:
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Re: Locality of nibbanna

Postby lobster » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:12 am

flowerbudh wrote:Nirvana is the highest happiness.


The Buddha 'resided' or rested in Nirvana, an awake state, freed from suffering. :meditate:

If you want to go there for a holiday, you might be able to join the Mormon planetary relocation service, the dharma pureland multi-dimensional fabrication program (not yet available) or other fantasy journeyings.

Teachings have to be placed correctly but not everyone is ready for an awake, freed united State . . . :smile:

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Re: Locality of nibbanna

Postby LastLegend » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:36 am

I don't know where Nibbana is. I can imagine it, but I don't think that helps.
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Re: Locality of nibbanna

Postby dude » Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:36 pm

flowerbudh wrote:According to BuddhaNet (idk if this is a reliable source or not):

"It is a dimension transcending time and space and thus is difficult to talk about or even think about. Words and thoughts being only suited to describe the time-space dimension. But because Nirvana is beyond time, there is no movement and so no aging or dying. Thus Nirvana is eternal because it is beyond space, there is no causation, no boundary, no concept of self and not-self and thus Nirvana is infinite. The Buddha also assures us that Nirvana is an experience of great happiness. He says:
Nirvana is the highest happiness.

Dhammapada 204"

In this way, I came to my conclusion that nirvana is beyond human comprehension, and thus, 'inhuman' in some regard. I could be completely wrong, so please enlighten me.

Right, it's beyond our comprehension as common mortals.
We were born as human beings, but we experience all the other realms as well : the hell of pain and loss, the heaven of getting what we want.
This life is like a dream; constantly changing, temporary, with a beginning and an end.
Practice is the observation of the mind and developing the capacity to perceive the ultimate reality; peacefully abiding with no beginning and no end, unchanging. That is nirvana. Your life in its true reality is the life and mind of a Buddha. That is your True Self.
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Re: Locality of nibbanna

Postby philji » Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:11 pm

Nirvana is the extinguishing..the snuffing out...of what you may ask.. What do you think....
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Re: Locality of nibbanna

Postby KonchokZoepa » Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:51 pm

flowerbudh wrote:Nirvana, I assume, transcends time and space, so in that sense, can one who attains it still accurately be called a 'human' being, one who dwells in this Earth? Or in this universe, for that matter, where nothing is permanent?


flowerbudh wrote:According to BuddhaNet (idk if this is a reliable source or not):

"It is a dimension transcending time and space and thus is difficult to talk about or even think about. Words and thoughts being only suited to describe the time-space dimension. But because Nirvana is beyond time, there is no movement and so no aging or dying. Thus Nirvana is eternal because it is beyond space, there is no causation, no boundary, no concept of self and not-self and thus Nirvana is infinite. The Buddha also assures us that Nirvana is an experience of great happiness. He says:
Nirvana is the highest happiness.

Dhammapada 204"

In this way, I came to my conclusion that nirvana is beyond human comprehension, and thus, 'inhuman' in some regard. I could be completely wrong, so please enlighten me.



linking these two posts together, i see that you consider yourself as being this human body. and for that matter you consider that everything in your mind is impermanent since you seem to indicate that it is contained within this human being and this universe and no where else. the mind is not impermanent, even though the skandhas are. mind essence or buddha-nature is not impermanent and is in your mind. i could think that when actually attaining enlightenment you would realize that you are not a human being, so the answer can you attain it while being a human being, yes and no. think about it..
also what already transcends time and space, yet you do not see it cause you have created limitations and barriers. mind. if you want to understand at least what it means to transcend the time read Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamtso's - sun of wisdom - teachings of Nagarjuna's mulamadhyamakakarika.

i think it is true that words cannot describe it in its fullest, but it can show you the way to some greater or lesser degree.

and also to point out if you think that nothing is permanent you are falling into one of the extremes, nihilism and thus are not following the middle way correctly. neither permanent nor impermanent, not both, and not either. but the middle.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: Locality of nibbanna

Postby muni » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:48 pm

flowerbudh wrote:Nirvana, I assume, transcends time and space, so in that sense, can one who attains it still accurately be called a 'human' being, one who dwells in this Earth? Or in this universe, for that matter, where nothing is permanent?


:namaste: Yes, easy to forget in daily life that the body is not merely our being, like in moments of pain or fear it can appear so and suffer is very real and strong. Then we appear by apprehended thoughts as a body-mind, a separate thing with the human characteristics, separated of other things. I guess, the interdependence-emptiness as called human mind is ideal to meet dharma (precious human birth in teachings), to realize these very interdependence-emptiness is without any separation and so neither of time and space. To rest in peace of nature.

I suppose by transcending, there is nothing wrong to see ourselves as human as long as there is the clarity of the actor-like nature as the impermanent play of our nature? Or whatever which expression pointing to form-emptiness/emptiness-form. No idea.

When I think about, it seems there is only dwelling when we are locked in thoughts.
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Re: Locality of nibbanna

Postby duckfiasco » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:37 pm

Nirvana is so utterly ordinary we overlook it at every possible turn.
At least that's what I've heard. I wouldn't know :rolleye:
Namu Amida Butsu
The Perfect Way knows no difficulties
Except that it refuses to make preferences;
Only when freed from hate and love,
It reveals itself fully and without disguise.
- Sengcan (tr. Suzuki)
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Re: Locality of nibbanna

Postby KonchokZoepa » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:46 pm

second :rolleye: :rolleye: :rolleye:
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: Locality of nibbanna

Postby flowerbudh » Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:21 pm

Might we all be in nirvana already and we just don't know?
Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without. - The Buddha
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Re: Locality of nibbanna

Postby duckfiasco » Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:34 pm

That's one of the key ideas in Zen Buddhism, if I'm not mistaken.
Namu Amida Butsu
The Perfect Way knows no difficulties
Except that it refuses to make preferences;
Only when freed from hate and love,
It reveals itself fully and without disguise.
- Sengcan (tr. Suzuki)
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Re: Locality of nibbanna

Postby Huifeng » Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:24 am

Maybe try to get over that "in" idea...

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