When Right Speech seems to give bad fruits

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Re: When Right Speech seems to give bad fruits

Postby bulhaeng » Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:08 am

Nosta wrote:Non-Violent Communication? Never heard..., but thanks for the tip ;)

Hi Nostam

I second those who advise NVC. For me it was the second most powerful thing after I found Dharma. I am sure that the creator - Marshall Rosenberg has some kind of spiritual insight. In my country probably half of the NVC coaches are also involved in buddhism (mainly roshi Kwong's sangha). NVC helped me to solve some inner problems that buddhist practise couldn't touch.

I recommend you the NVC workshop on youtube - it should give you a taste of the method and it's fun to watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBGlF7-MPFI

Best,
Piotr
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Re: When Right Speech seems to give bad fruits

Postby mandala » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:15 am

Nosta wrote:So, I try to cool down my colleagues, explain to them that the X person is not like they say or person Y did something because he/she must to, etc. I try honestly to apply Right Speech as a way to join people together, to creat friendship. But my colleagues are so clouded that they are start thinking that I am just some guy trying to look like nice to his boss, or someone who likes the "bad guys". I think they are not understanding what I am trying to do, but what I am trying to do is not giving any good fruit...and even worst, it seems to be creating more bad feelings.


Just a thought, but perhaps your colleagues have the impression that you're defending the bosses who they see as their source of unhappiness?
In this case, it's likely to increase their frustration and create a divide between you.

Another way to view it may be to just listen and empathise with their feelings. Do what you can to make others feel relaxed, to alleviate some of the stress & anger they are experiencing.

:smile:
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Re: When Right Speech seems to give bad fruits

Postby lobster » Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:56 pm

I think that probably to past karma, my Right Speech is useless, and probably I must shut up my mouth and not give any more help in this specific context. I will not attack, but not help neither. I will be a shadow. Its the best option in this moment.


A shadow is a skilful option if unable to transform or resolve. If you are interested in using language to resolve issues look at Neuro Linguistic Programming. At the least you should develop a sense of humour and suggest you can provide a Buddhist hit man to take care of the boss. Perhaps the Shaolin or Buddhist Shinobi still provide this suffering reduction service? You could start an office fund? :namaste:
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Re: When Right Speech seems to give bad fruits

Postby Nosta » Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:24 pm

seeker242 wrote:
duckfiasco wrote:Seeker, I thought I read elsewhere in the sutras (and a few books) that being agreeable to others wasn't the final determining point.
After all, consider how often the Buddha challenged people's deeply held beliefs at the time.
Can anyone help find what I mean, or maybe I'm way off base here.
Of course, saying what's not endearing to others yet beneficial, while remaining harmless and actually helping is an order of magnitude more difficult than being completely truthful alone already is!


It seems to me that the final determining point is whether or not it would be beneficial, just as long as it's true. So number 3 says "factual, true, beneficial, but unendearing & disagreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them."

Now getting the "sense of the proper time" to say unendearing & disagreeable things, while still being beneficial, that seems to be the tricky part!

Nosta wrote:Seeker, wich Sutra is that? I would like to read it.


It's Majjhima Nikaya 58, one of my favorites regarding speech :smile: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html


First, thanks for all the answers so far.

Second, regarding the quotes, I wonder why one should not say things that are beneficial, even if they are not true. I can imagine some situations where that would be good. On the other hand, if you lie once you loose the status of a honest and faithful person. I think that lying with benefits would be advisable only in extreme situations (like, if you lie you prevent someone to commit suicide or a killing).

In third place, since my fits post on this thread, I am getting the feeling that my colleagues are starting to see me as a trustful person. I hope they can get more peaceful.
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