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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:37 pm 
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My background is not in Buddhism and some the shallow knowledge that I know, enlightenment means the cessation of desires and attachment so I have a few questions.


-How is someone's mind after enlightenment?
-Is it bliss or joy that enlightenment brings or just silent peace?
-Do they still have feelings?
-Do they still have ambitions?
-Do they still appreciate worldly beauty such as art or maybe nature?
-If someone have a wife or husband or partner, will they lose all interest after enlightenment and abandon them?
-Do they feel pain anymore, say maybe from the lost of a family member or someone close such as a great friend that he or she grew up with and been around their whole life?

Please excuse my lack of knowledge on the subject. I am somehow under the impression that when one realized enlightenment, he or she becomes a robot. Never gets angry or sad, not overly giddy or happy, does not have any attachment and have no desires. It seems ...almost an awful existence....

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:56 pm 
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I think before enlightenment is the behaviour similar to the robot.Do things so that know nothing from reasons why we do it.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:02 pm 
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i have no answers to your questions but to get an answer you must learn from scriptures and text about bodhisattvas, about theyre attitude, wisdom and compassion and love. when you experience these qualities and the qualities of the 6 perfections in total, you will start to understand what it is like to be a bodhisattva, that is on the path to being a buddha, i dont think you can intellectualize enlightenment, its like this , not like that , no desires etc. you need to experience it yourself to know. but i would think that what we generally think it is, its not like that. i could ask a question that or speculate that maybe buddha has desire, desire to help all beings, desire to love all beings, but the difference is he doesnt have clinging and grasping which are the causes of suffering. anyway, you cant make buddhahood or enlightenment into a box.

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If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:04 pm 
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also if you want to understand what enlightenment is you need to understand emptiness. when you realize that you are in nirvana. of course there is only one emptiness. but in vajrayana people talk about the union of appearance and emptiness, the union of compassion and emptiness and the union of bliss and emptiness. of course there is just one emptiness but different facets of the one true natural state. anyway, i know nothing about this so you have to find out for yourself and consult someone who has experience and knows.

_________________
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:25 pm 
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Here's a Theravadan perspective that I think is pretty universal. It may answer some of your questions.

Eight Mindful Steps to Happiness - Bhante Henepola Gunaratana wrote:
Yet it is hard for us to imagine at this point what total happiness might feel like. What would it be like never to experience desire or hatred?
This very question came up among Buddha's disciples. One day, the Venerable Sariputta, one of the Buddha's two chief disciples and himself an enlightened teacher was having a discussion with a group of monks. They asked him, "Venerable Sir, this state of permanent happiness, which the Buddha calls nibbana, is said not to be experiential happiness. How can something that is not experienced be called happiness?"
Sariputta answered, "That is why it is called happiness." (A IV (Nines) IV 3)

In other words, happiness consists of what is not experienced. The third [Noble] truth teaches us that happiness is wiping out all negative states of mind -- all desire, all hatred, all ignorance. When we at least succeed in putting out the internal fires that burn our eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body and mind, then we experience total happiness, total peace. It may be hard to imagine what such a state feels like, but the only way to find out is by following the path towards the goal.

Like many of us, the monks talking to Sariputta wanted to know right at the beginning of the path what its end is like.

...

At present, our mind is full of ideas, opinions, and views, many of them motivated by desire, hatred, or ignorance. Trying to understand the bliss of permanent happiness before we have eliminated our negative states of mind is impossible.

...

Until you do so, the nearest you can come to experiencing the happiness of enlightenment is the bliss you sometimes achieve when you have momentarily let go of your burden, when the mind is just "mind" with nothing else in it. The inferential understanding you get at such times may be compared to being in the desert and feeling tired and thirsty. You come upon a deep well with some water at the bottom, but there is no bucket or rope. You're too weak to hoist up a bucketful anyway. So although you can see the water, you can't taste it, let alone drink any. Similarly, when your mind is temporarily free of greed, hatred, and delusion, you can perceive the peace of nibbana, but you don't necessarily have the tools to reach it. Getting rid of greed is like finding the rope of generosity. Freeing the mind from hatred is like attaching the rope to the bucket of loving-friendliness. Strength in your hands is like wisdom, free of ignorance. When you put these three together, you have the means to taste, at last, the bliss of nibbana.

The bliss of this state is indescribable. Its single characteristic is peace. It is not born, not created, not conditioned. The best we can do is to say what this state does not have. It does not have desire or attachment or grasping after things, people and experiences. It does not have hatred or aversion or anger or greed. It does not have the fault of seeing things as permanent, as satisfactory, or as possessing an inherent self or soul.

People who are still under the delusion that they are enjoying life as it is here in this unsatisfactory world might hear this description and say, "Enlightenment does not sound like much fun. I'm not sure I want to attain that state. Are there houses there? What about families, schools, medical insurance, hospitals, good roads, and so forth?" I have been asked this question.

We would have to answer no. One who remains attached to life, this endless existence, does not have the clarity of mind to want to attain the state of permanent bliss. This person has not understood the Buddha's first truth, that dissatisfaction is unavoidable, or his second truth, that to whatever degree we desire, to that degree we suffer. Without Skillful Understanding of these essential points, it is impossible to understand the Buddha's third truth -- that dissatisfaction ends when we cease all attachment, all desire.


It's also important to note that the thrust of practice, from what I've learned anyway, is towards our relationship with attachment and desire, and how they cause our suffering.
We're not trying to become Spock-like stoics.
I would hardly call realized teachers like the Dalai Lama or Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche or Tsoknyi Rinpoche stoic. They bubble forth with humor, curiosity, and warmth.
It might be worth your while to meet with a lama or experienced practitioner at a local Buddhist center, just to see what they're like.

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Namu Amida Butsu


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:08 pm 
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TheSpirit wrote:
My background is not in Buddhism and some the shallow knowledge that I know, enlightenment means the cessation of desires and attachment so I have a few questions.


-How is someone's mind after enlightenment?
-Is it bliss or joy that enlightenment brings or just silent peace?
-Do they still have feelings?
-Do they still have ambitions?
-Do they still appreciate worldly beauty such as art or maybe nature?
-If someone have a wife or husband or partner, will they lose all interest after enlightenment and abandon them?
-Do they feel pain anymore, say maybe from the lost of a family member or someone close such as a great friend that he or she grew up with and been around their whole life?

Please excuse my lack of knowledge on the subject. I am somehow under the impression that when one realized enlightenment, he or she becomes a robot. Never gets angry or sad, not overly giddy or happy, does not have any attachment and have no desires. It seems ...almost an awful existence....


It brings bliss.
No negative feelings and positive feelings are for other's benefit.
Ambition to enlighten beings.
He sees ignorance in art which is sad, but sees everything is beautiful without having to craft the perception like an artist would.
In Vajrayana a spouse is a blessing.
They do not feel loss or regret when people die, but do feel responsible for the dead person's enlightenment.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:55 pm 
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One of my favorite quotes:

"Whose conquest can't be undone, whose conquest no one in the world can reach; awakened, his pasture endless, pathless: by what path will you lead him astray? In whom there's no craving — the sticky ensnarer — to lead him anywherever at all; awakened, his pasture endless, pathless: by what path will you lead him astray?"

There are parts in the Pali Canon where Shakyamuni remarks on the beauty of a field or similar, Mahayana Sutra are full on insanely beautiful imagery and appreciation of it. I think you can't look at things like that to determine the nature of enlightenment. Though, the question is basically as loaded as asking a theist about the nature of God.

Quote:
Please excuse my lack of knowledge on the subject. I am somehow under the impression that when one realized enlightenment, he or she becomes a robot. Never gets angry or sad, not overly giddy or happy, does not have any attachment and have no desires. It seems ...almost an awful existence....


A Buddha is released fully from Tanha - craving. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ta%E1%B9%87h%C4%81..I think, in some way this is by definition a blissful state, it is not an acquisition of anything though.

This doesn't mean (I don't think) that they are unfeeling necessarily, but they have no craving to lead them anywhere creating new Karma, and no obsessive thinking or elaboration anymore, things are simply seen as is..I believe that would include emotions.

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"We're chained to the world and we all gotta pull" -Tom Waits


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:07 pm 
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:namaste:

All good answers. :good: :good: :good:

My 2 cents blah blah, far from enlightened but if I had to guess ---

-How is someone's mind after enlightenment?

This question would not arise because there is no reference point of a self having (or not having) anything, including a mind or enlightenment: like trying to write on air or water.

-Is it bliss or joy that enlightenment brings or just silent peace?

Bliss, joy and silent peace would be seen as being exactly of the same nature / quality, as would any other experience, as well. Experiences arise as a display of energy but there is no attachment / clinging or aversion / fear of what arises or doesn't arise. All appearances are of exactly the same nature. This is sometimes called the "All Good" or "same taste", or "one taste" A Buddha would never imagine or speak of bliss, joy or silent peace, though from the outside, these qualities may be imputed to a Buddha.

-Do they still have feelings?

Feelings can arise as a natural display of energy but there is no attachment / clinging, or aversion / fear of what arises or doesn't arise. There is no identification with someone holding / having a thought or feeling. The feeling or thought is experienced and released at the same time - like a snake untying its own knot, a soap bubble bursting or a snowflake falling on a hot stove.

-Do they still have ambitions?

A thought could arise that we would normally call an ambition, but there would be no attachment / clinging, or aversion / fear of what arises or doesn't arise. A Buddha does not come under the power of thought or emotion. Except for the cause of compassionate activity there is no need to do, or not do, anything, including remaining, which is why disciples write long life prayers for the Masters to stay and teach.

-Do they still appreciate worldly beauty such as art or maybe nature?

Thoughts and feelings that we would normally call appreciation of art or nature (including intimacy) may arise but with no attachment / clinging, or aversion / fear of what arises or doesn't arise. :smile:

-If someone have a wife or husband or partner, will they lose all interest after enlightenment and abandon them?

Many enlightened Masters, in many ancient and modern Buddhist traditions, have wives, husbands and partners, who are treated with sincere respect and tender love.

-Do they feel pain anymore, say maybe from the lost of a family member or someone close such as a great friend that he or she grew up with and been around their whole life?

Marpa, an enlightened Master, was said to have cried, when his son was thrown from a horse and died.

Thoughts and emotions may arise but without being the cause of attachment or aversion. Perhaps Marpa suffered illusory tears for his illusory son having suffered illusory death. :smile:


I would imagine that enlightenment has nothing to say about anything, but shines on brightly - none the less, and so many things may be said (without attachment or aversion).

So to answer the OP's question, "yes", but a Buddha would never think, feel or say this.

I'm just babbling back what I have heard about such things, so perhaps it might be more useful to put these questions to an enlightened Master. :buddha1:

Hope this helps.

ob


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:35 pm 
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TheSpirit wrote:
My background is not in Buddhism and some the shallow knowledge that I know, enlightenment means the cessation of desires and attachment so I have a few questions.


-How is someone's mind after enlightenment?
-Is it bliss or joy that enlightenment brings or just silent peace?
-Do they still have feelings?
-Do they still have ambitions?
-Do they still appreciate worldly beauty such as art or maybe nature?
-If someone have a wife or husband or partner, will they lose all interest after enlightenment and abandon them?
-Do they feel pain anymore, say maybe from the lost of a family member or someone close such as a great friend that he or she grew up with and been around their whole life?

Please excuse my lack of knowledge on the subject. I am somehow under the impression that when one realized enlightenment, he or she becomes a robot. Never gets angry or sad, not overly giddy or happy, does not have any attachment and have no desires. It seems ...almost an awful existence....


I definitely don't know the answers to any of those questions..but since opinions are interesting to share!!

How is someone's mind: same as before, too bad but that's it!
Is it bliss or joy: same as currently, sometimes one, sometimes other. sometimes neither.
feelings: definitely. unbearable compassion for all things, universal love for all things. this we know from scriptures
ambitions: same as before. Buddha gets a splinter in his foot, he wanted to have it out right away! Treehouse project still needs to get done, and so forth. Compassion compassion compassion. Permeates all activity.
worldly beauty: yes, more so. since obstructive energies have subsided, maybe mind has more electrical current to activate the beauty center!
wife: here I can't even guess! But probably more so, same obstructive energies should transform to very positive things! Buddha abandoned his wife, BEFORE enlightenment!!
Pain: see feelings. Yes.

No robots need apply!

:namaste:


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:28 am 
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TheSpirit wrote:
Please excuse my lack of knowledge on the subject. I am somehow under the impression that when one realized enlightenment, he or she becomes a robot. Never gets angry or sad, not overly giddy or happy, does not have any attachment and have no desires. It seems ...almost an awful existence....


Awful eh?
Far from it.
:woohoo:

Quote:
-How is someone's mind after enlightenment?


Present, never left, no before, no pudding afters.

Quote:
-Is it bliss or joy that enlightenment brings or just silent peace?

Joy and peace is our natural being. Silent peace is not zombie mind.

Quote:
-Do they still have feelings?

Such as compassion and metta? Yes.

Quote:
-Do they still have ambitions?

Such as alleviating suffering? Yes.

Quote:
-Do they still appreciate worldly beauty such as art or maybe nature?

Oh yeah. Why wouldn't they?


Quote:
-If someone have a wife or husband or partner, will they lose all interest after enlightenment and abandon them?

Whatever for? Hardly very enlightened.

Quote:
-Do they feel pain anymore, say maybe from the lost of a family member or someone close such as a great friend that he or she grew up with and been around their whole life?

Sure, just not wallowing, unnecessary anguish and continual attachment to the dead and gone . . .

Hope that is helpful. :popcorn:

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YinYana Buddhism


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